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The SJW thread The SJW thread

02-07-2017 , 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Mori****a System
Jordan Peterson also chimes in on his insight on SJWs, basically describing it as a form of narcissism and also due to a poor teaching of history in schools. Well worth the listen, even though it's long.
The fact we have a large amount of people that regard Marxist ideology as virtue instead of a terror is a perfect example of a lack of historical literacy in the general populace and our education system.

It's equivalent to Nazi's being regarded as ok. In fact, Marxist ideology has killed far more people and created more suffering than Nazism ever did. Both should be treated equally.
02-07-2017 , 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by turtletom
No offense but the post you linked misses a lot and is in fact a strawman. One you quote a "dear colleague" letter, a letter that carries more weight than a simple suggestion.
Haidt could have made that argument, but didn't. I think it's a terrible argument, by the way. The letter clearly states that any disparity in discipline between the races will only be PART of an investigation and that a disparity is not necessarily evidence of discrimination.If Haidt thinks otherwise, he has a duty to make that argument and not say that the Obama administration said for schools to "eliminate the discrepancy" when they did no such thing.

In regards to "equal disciplining" in schools you completely disregard that many schools have adopted this policy and in fact is law, in at least, Minnesota and possibly more states.
I have no problem with school systems eliminating disparity in discipline if they feel that is the best way to handle the situation.

Just look at a similar examples. One I can think of off the top of my head is a "dear colleague" letter that was sent to college administrations in 2011 that outlined possible sexual assault protocols that could be adopted on campus. One of which was a switch of from campus sexual assault hearings using a preponderance of evidence instead of reasonable doubt as the basis of a guilty verdict being levied in campus sexual assault cases by the university administrations. This has been widely adopted by most universities as well as other policies outlined in the letter. These letters when written are usually "suggestions" that are in fact veiled orders to comply or else you will face possible future funding cuts or prosecution.
This is a bit confusing because the letter in question states explicitly that schools must use the preponderance of evidence standard:

Thus, in order for a school’s grievance procedures to be consistent with Title IX standards, the school must use a preponderance of the evidence standard
So this wasn't really a veiled order at all. And it also seems like a sensible policy to me. Moreover, the goal of eliminating the disparity was not even a "suggestion" in the letter that Haidt referenced.
02-07-2017 , 04:37 PM
I made a gif of the slippery slope fallacy and how it works. I have been called all of these things, even though I am only one of these things.

02-07-2017 , 04:44 PM
If only you spent as much time attacking the *******s on the slope as you did the SJW who do.
02-07-2017 , 05:04 PM
The Anti-SJWs you've cited have been rape apologists, so I'm not sure if that's where they belong on the slope.
02-07-2017 , 05:37 PM
When enemies can be determined by mention, how many mentions of SJWs does it take to make an SJW an enemy? The stereotype of random free individual fools into a stereotype of SJW reached peak weird IMO. SJWS are bad is like the new taxation is theft. Some are immature and some arent even SJW. Like the scope of the people connected with social justice movements seems missed by some sjw critics, but not all.
No wonder it's like Fredrick Douglass's ghost was here.
02-07-2017 , 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by FoldnDark
Well, one "SJW" has only so much relative power. But get a few dozen together on Twitter, and you can swing elections and start a civil war.

This is why the anti-SJWs must come together. United we will defeat them.

02-08-2017 , 10:03 AM
Stumbled upon a good definition:

Originally Posted by LordJvK
Forget about the labels. If anyone has ever bugged you by being too self-righteous, that's who people are talking about. If you have never been bugged by that, you are one.
02-08-2017 , 10:19 AM
The SJWs feel the world is out to get them so they feel they must fight. However, what they are really fighting for is their place in history. They are fighting on behalf of their ego. It's not about the issues, it's about being on the right side of the issue. Unfortunately, this motivation is derived from the outside world. They have been told what to think and whom to hate. They are at the mercy of circumstance. This is why they are so miserable. They have no perceived control of their lives. They are like wild animals who instinctively believes they are under attack. There is no rational thought. This is why they fail in life.
02-08-2017 , 10:27 AM
Here's a post that I think you'd agree with mongidig:

Originally Posted by LordJvK
I don't care about that. It lies at the heart of why the illiberal people that I am talking about are widely disliked and mocked.

If you want to talk about values, it comes down to this:

The people we are talking about only really focus on Care / Harm and often at the expense of liberty.

They do not understand how anyone could hold the other values just as you can't explain to a child who doesn't like coffee why some people like that taste.

Incidentally, this is also the reason why leftist protest and activism is doomed to fail ultimately, while the those on the right were more successful with theirs: they hit on more of those values and more people instantly get them.

The left push too hard on one and insodoing unite everyone else against them.

When a Trump supporter or a Brexiteer thinks about a leftist, all he thinks about is this:

All he hears is that. All he sees is that.

Your arguments, your messages, your protests, don't mean a thing. All he processes is that person crying into the ether because he didn't get his own way. He sees a snowflake. And then just mocks them.

This is what you are up against, keep on doubling down and down. You will lose and lose hard.

I don't really care if you call me a troll, a secret alt right-ist, a Tory, whatever, the truth is the truth. And this is the truth.

EU people still haven't woken up to that. You guys still don't seem aware of it, or you choose to ignore it, or you double-down thinking that your screaming is going to change it.

Think again. Regroup. Come at it in a new way.
02-08-2017 , 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by LordJvK
Stumbled upon a good definition:
So Trump and Farage are SJWs now?
02-08-2017 , 11:29 AM
Just mirror images of them.
02-08-2017 , 11:42 AM
So the definition of SJW isn't anyone who bugged you by being self-righteous?
02-08-2017 , 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by LordJvK
Here's a post that I think you'd agree with mongidig:
Excellent post!

These folks lack self awareness. They don't understand the concepts of packaging, marketing, and language. This is why they fail over and over again. They are the crying child who was given candy in an attempt to shut them up. These spoiled brats continue to act like children. Sometimes they get their way(candy) but in the long run they are always doomed to fail.

How can you take a person(Michael Moore?)as depicted in your video seriously?

I bet these people have significantly greater health issues from their self inflicted stress.

Last edited by mongidig; 02-08-2017 at 11:55 AM.
02-08-2017 , 11:49 AM
Is it really going to turn out that SJW are just people who care more about racists, bigots and misogynists than Lord does?
02-08-2017 , 12:02 PM
That would be a more consistent standard.
02-08-2017 , 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by LordJvK
This is why the anti-SJWs must come together. United we will defeat them.

This is probably a goof, but it's pretty clear that the alt-right, or at least some substantial part of it (Milo fans, gamergate), have already organized in resistance.

I'm not sure how necessary that really is, and it's probably counterproductive since the alt-right has that ugly creamy white supremacist center. So, such trollish resistance gives the "SJWs" more motivation, and even proves their point to a degree how racist, misogynist, etc, the world around us is... even if they're now only fighting a monster they have summoned.

So if the alt-right nasty anti-SJW's were to step back and stand down, I think a few things would happen naturally:

1) There would be fewer things for the overly sensitive and easily trolled to organize around.

2) As people get used to social media and it's ability to amplify even the most radical messages by catering to the loudest and bitchiest (and most trollish) of us, people will adjust to this and stop responding so quickly.

I pointed this out to Shamey in another thread. A letter to your congressman used to represent 100 or 1000 constituents -- I forget how the saying went. Now a twitter mob of maybe a couple hundred really only represents a couple hundred (often loud aholes ), and maybe even less if people are multi-accounting. It's not the "will of the people." The overreaction to them has driven much of the media narrative and the current animosity toward "SJW's", helping widen the political divide. People wouldn't care as much if everyone didn't jump at their every last silly gripe... and this is beginning to happen (See Ellen's response to her ridiculous twitter storm. She did not apologize or take down her funny photoshop).

3) Politically, staying on the side of liberal ideals always wins in the end. It just does. Illiberal censorship and it's ugly cousin public shaming is a failed strategy overall. Just ask the Church.

This is pretty much the same advice I try to give to the "SJW" crowd as well, and neither side will take it until they're convinced what they're doing is counterproductive and simply dividing society further and further. There are a lot of other things I'm leaving out and don't understand (not that this post should be considered a well-formed thesis either), like social media's role is more than just twitter mobs, and it may have a much larger effect than anyone can quantify so far. The fake news phenomenon and how it flourishes in bubbles comes to mind.

I hope smart scholars like Jonathan Haidt (and you) will continue to do research into what is going on on the ground, and I hope some of the smart social justice advocate scholars like Well Named (and OriP?) will also take these types of arguments into consideration and adjust if necessary. I think you and I both would like to see real progress continue to be made on racism and bigotry throughout the world, even if the "SJWs" think we're the enemy.
02-08-2017 , 05:47 PM
Shallow character lacks the depth found in true deep character. Like the difference between plain mockery and great satire.
02-09-2017 , 04:24 PM
Wow. He predicted SJWs.
02-09-2017 , 04:27 PM
SJWs are wrapped in flags and holding bibles? Perhaps some, a diverse group.
02-09-2017 , 04:27 PM
Nah, they just care a lot about minorities.

02-09-2017 , 04:30 PM
Their your enemy to know or not know or think you know, or whatever.
02-09-2017 , 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Wow. He predicted SJWs.
I guess when people point out he never said that you're going to claim some 12 dimensional chess bluff that you knew this and preempted the response?
02-09-2017 , 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Wow. He predicted SJWs.
Internet memes aren't always accurate.
02-09-2017 , 06:52 PM
The statement itself, whether Churchill actually said it or not, is pretty accurate nonetheless.

Last edited by BroadwaySushy; 02-09-2017 at 07:00 PM.