I don't protest PU's existence though.

There just seems to come a time and point where it should be judged on its merits.

You must not remember where Mat asked for Wookie's opinion

The fact that there are posters who believe this further demonstrates that unchained could be helpful.

That made zero sense.

I find this notion that the forum no longer needs to exist puzzling. There are a number of people who seem to like it, want it and who use it who want it to continue.

If all the traffic disappears or it becomes an extension of stormfront then I can understand. But as it is, it would seem there is a population here that is using this forum, thinks there is something unique about it and wishes to continue to do so.

There are many forums that serve no purpose to me and I don't frequent them. I would think that anyone who doesn't find value in this forum simply focus their attentions elsewhere. If enough people do so the forum will die quietly. But at the moment it seems to be bringing value to the forum.

Mat - I know you are concerned about some people's perceptions that the forum will become some outlet for racists. If the forum becomes predominately a space where racists gather and promote their agenda then I would have no interest modding or defending it. I don't think anything remotely like what some fear has become a reality at this point.

It should seem puzzling. It has the capability of bringing in new people; some bad some good. which again would make it more interesting.

Paul,

FFS Its a low-content politics discussion forum. So be it that the creator of the "Anarchy" thread decided that he wanted to actually have a life outside of politics posting. That was enough to sink UNCHAINED for you.

No.

And your statement is dubious.

Like I said, Sklansky should keep PU open or close it by its own merit. When you have one mod who used the forum to attention whore, it doesn't speak well for the forum.

Paul, those are some real serious issues. You don't need to be that guy 20 years from now with 215k posts arguing with some guy who hasn't been born yet with a join date of Nov 2028 over T&C's.

You know there's a guy somewhere with a million posts.

I think it speaks worse for the mod than it does for the forum.

I've come to a decision. JJshabado is going to be modded for 2 or 3 weeks and will be the "head mod". I'm not going to remove spank unles JJ asks me to in a few days.

I'm not going to have anything to do with the moderation, as has been the case for awhile. JJ can experiment all he likes.

After 2 or 3 weeks the forum will be reviewed again and whether it stays or goes will be mostly up to Mr.Wookie.

I for one welcome our new shabado-tastic overlord.

Good Luck JJ. I hope you figure out how to keep PU weird without letting it become hateful.

Govman For Mod !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Politicnado Unchained 2 : The next one

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

“The moment you say that any idea system is sacred, whether it’s a religious belief system or a secular ideology, the moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible."
- Salman Rushdie

“I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an ass of yourself.”
― Oscar Wilde

“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
― George Washington

“I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.”
― Voltaire

“My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.”
― Christopher Hitchens

“I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
― James Madison

“Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech.”
― Benjamin Franklin

“Because if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you've already lost.”
― Neil Gaiman

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”
― John Milton

“This is slavery, not to speak one's thought.”
― Euripides

“To view the opposition as dangerous is to misunderstand the basic concepts of democracy. To oppress the opposition is to assault the very foundation of democracy.”
― Aung San Suu Kyi

“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
- William O. Douglas

“The framers of the constitution knew human nature as well as we do. They too had lived in dangerous days; they too knew the suffocating influence of orthodoxy and standardized thought. They weighed the compulsions for restrained speech and thought against the abuses of liberty. They chose liberty."
- William O. Douglas

“If you can’t write freely and if you can’t speak freely in your country, you can be sure that you are living in a very primitive country!”
― Mehmet Murat ildan

"lol @ people who don't understand the first amendment"
-- Jesus

JJ I suggest you have a talk with Zeno.

Cool, thanks for the chance. I'll post a sticky shortly with how I plan on trying things out for the next few weeks.

As long as Spank is cool with what I'd like to try (and I think from his posts he is) than I don't see any reason to get rid of him at this point.

I, for one, am glad to have a place where I have the liberty to tell racists that they are racist even if they do not want to hear it.

Seems like a fair thing Mat did.

I think this is the main source of contention. However, I don't think the accusers are always blameless for these misunderstandings. If you're well aware that the other person is likely to interpret "racist ~= Nazi" and you call them racist (without any clarification), I think to some extent that's similar to out-and-out calling them a Nazi, while maintaining plausible deniability. You might protest "well, they should have known that racism spans a large spectrum". but communicating effectively is about knowing your audience. If you know your audience is likely to misinterpret what you're saying, that's your fault, not your audience's.

I think -

- could be a fair solution to this, although I would have it spell everything out, e.g.

"Was your post called racist? Before you get offended, note that the other person probably wasn't trying to equate you to a Nazi or Klansman. Racial prejudice comes in a broad spectrum and we all suffer from it to varying degrees. You could still be a generally good person with friends of many races and yet still exhibit subconscious biases. It's worthwhile to engage in self-reflection to expose and hopefully eliminate these biases."

These are certainly interesting developments.

If I call someone a racist, their reaction tends to match what I expected. Some racists are completely incapable of doing anything other than misinterpreting, whether naively or willfully, anything I have to say about race that doesn't fit their ideology. Sometimes, they're just the prop I use while playing to my real audience.