yeah my bad. i didnt tried to trap u into anything. but since i read most threads here, i shoulda known better

man, u realy scared of being trapped, arent u?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...olving_Germany
and religion is what people make out of it, according to reza aslan.
and no, im not blaming the kid.

but i dont see no reason not to blame the parents.

I'm just used to the way things go in Politics/PU. Apparently you are as well and weren't really going that direction.


I'm a Jew with a huge WWII chip on my shoulder. I blame Germany and the German people for plenty. The Nazi movement came out of a relatively liberal well educated society. Thankfully we never got that far, but the kids coming out of the Hitler youth camps, many of them taken from their parents, would have nearly all grown up to be hateful with little personal responsibility for that. The generation of Germans who tried to take over Europe and kill tens of millions of people had no such excuse.


As usual in Politics/PU arguments, we were fighting, but never really disagreeing about the issue.

im aware of it, thats why i try not post in the politic forum. its such a BS behaviour established to undermine free speech imo.


as i mentioned before, i have jewish background in family also, but i dont like the fact, that people get away with bad decisions they do NOW, even tho they should know better, using the past as excuse.


wrong.
thats what u said, and i couldnt agree less.

Then why don't you blame that Afgani kid? Or even consider his upbringing a mitigating factor?

What exactly is the point of thia discussion? Whether individuals are responsible for their views? I dont condemn the average Egyptian for espousing sexist, homophobic, violent ideas. We can blame the society though.

Basically that's what I mean. Seems like maybe popeye just wants to see if that line of thinking includes excusing criminals and racists in our society?

I dont see why it would. I cant overly fault someone on an individual level for having views that are ubiquitous in that society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society
these people are the Society. are we ants or humans? dont we have all the possibility to free thinking?
what im saying is, that i can blame individuals for what they do. micro claims people have little to no choice of what happens in their lifes or what religion they wanna follow. i think thats BS. thats all what im saying. dont see my fault tbh.

Then why don't you blame or even lessen that blame for that Afghani kid? You said you didn't blame him.

isnt that self explaining? a kid actually is limited in his choices, has no influence on the way he/she gets raised and no impact on the society. thats why nature gave us parents to make these choices for us as kids.
i realy have trouble to see whats wrong with my assumptions, or why its so hard to understand what im saying. its obv that we get raised as products of our society, but it shouldnt stop people from making better/different choices as adults when they suppose to know better. thats how society developed, afaik.

Let me translate that for you...

(Spankese-->Mongolian-->Korean-->Finnish-->English)

Disclaimer: Credit to Dids for the idea.

Popeye,

So, the kid is raised to be hateful. You don't blame him for being hateful. He never leaves this society that's full of hate.

At what age does the hate FULLY become his choice?

And I'm not talking about legally. I'm not suggesting letting murderers go free because they had a bad homelife.

I'm explaining why 300,000,000 people believe in things like killing someone who leaves the faith.

You and Dids are bigots exactly because of this thoughtless and ignorant behavior.

...

Lolwookies

We can put ctyri down as a support of death for blasphemy. Why else would a person purposely garble a message criticizing blasphmey laws? Who knew cytri is a religious conservative? Makes sense, goes hand in hand with bigotry.

He was killed as a prerequisite čtyři blasphemy. Why anyone would criticize the law against blasphemy wrong message? Cytran religious conservatives, who knows? This idea is associated with emotions.

Obviously mocking spank like that is childish, stupid, and reflects terribly on the character of anyone who does it.

Agreed.

Sorry. When does this thread actually address the topic of the thread?

And yeah, it's worthless responding to thekid345. He's on the idiot list.

as soon as he becomes a full memeber of society. that point is usually marked (atleast where i live) when someone is eligible to vote.


ur explanation? i told u what i think about it. not changing my mind.

Not sure why it is important to assign blame or not assign blame. If a kid grows up to become a terrorist it doesn't matter if he was raised in a fundamentalist country only knowing hate or if he grew up in a western country and got radicalized. If he is trying to blow up people then his back-story only matters in trying to determine how we can prevent future terrorist attacks.

Most terrorists likely would have turned out a lot differently had they grown up in a different time and place. So would have most natzis and most slaveowners and most kkk members.

adacan,

Nothing we do here is important. Just discussing human nature.

Also, I was never talking specifically about terrorists or people who blow things up. I was talking about (and this was the subject of the Marher/Harris discussion) the attitudes of hundreds of millions of Muslims. Not the dozens of suicide bombers or even the tens of thousands of ISIS soldiers. The hundreds of millions of people who answered those surveys.

Perhaps it is important to understand how hundreds of millions of people come to believe things that are so at odds with what we believe. I think that would be pretty useful if we are going to try to influence those beliefs.

No more strawmen would be useful. I'm not talking about the extreme people in any society (not kkk or nazi members or the kid who blows himself up). I'm talking about the average joe, the vast majority of the population in places like Pakistan or Afghanistan.

I was not trying to use strawmen, my point would still stand if we used the average Joe in places like Pakistan or Afghanistan. I completely agree with you that we should try to understand why people believe what they believe. My point was precisely that, we should be trying to understand why people believe or act the way they do.

Saying that we blame or don't blame them isn't at all useful. Who cares if we say we "blame" him or not. The important thing is why did he get that way. The only way assigning blame is useful is in a court of law or to feel morally superior. It does little for the understanding of way things are they way they are.