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06-29-2013 , 08:30 PM

#101

Cwocwoc

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky

i don't think cwoc is serious anymore:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...2&postcount=75

Why would you think that an argument backed up with a serious scientific study wasn't serious ? Because there is humour in the odd post ?

06-29-2013 , 08:34 PM

#102

Cwocwoc

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Sure, cwocwoc claims to be an atheist.

I am an atheist. I do not believe in any religious God. I subscribe to much of the original Humanist Manifesto. Humanists are atheists.

06-29-2013 , 08:39 PM

#103

Cwocwoc

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Mat, I have never personally met an atheist opposed to gay marriage, but that doesnt mean they arent out there. I would be curious for that line of reasoning as well. To me an atheist gay rights denier is the same as a gay christian, it doesnt make any sense at all

My position is that you should have your rights and that includes the right to exercise your discrete gay identity. I have already posted (but it's probably worth repeating) that this is probably a different debate where I am in the UK as we have had equal civil partnerships for gay people for a number of years.

06-29-2013 , 08:42 PM

#104

Mat Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

Why would you think that an argument backed up with a serious scientific study wasn't serious ? Because there is humour in the odd post ?

your arguments don't make any sense to me at all, so i think you're screwing around. whether you are or not doesn't matter. that's simply my perception.

06-29-2013 , 08:44 PM

#105

Cwocwoc

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky

your arguments don't make any sense to me at all, so i think you're screwing around. whether you are or not doesn't matter. that's simply my perception.

As you are the arbiter of what's allowed on here I'm bowing out of this.

06-29-2013 , 08:46 PM

#106

PocketChads

guaranteed 42-10 finish

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,449

Don't back down! Who else will be able to tell us what it means to be gay???

06-29-2013 , 08:48 PM

#107

Mat Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

this may very well be the problem. looking at the US, what should realistically be done at this point in your opinion?

06-29-2013 , 09:11 PM

#108

Mat Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganstaman

I'm a gay Jew (I'm a believer, it's not just cultural for me, though it is to a large extent).

according to the following article you picked the right religion: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/welco...emium-1.532565

i'm mildly obsessed with this whole issue and try as i might, i can't find anybody who makes any sense when it comes to the civil unions are ok but no marriage. except when it's applied to ALL marriage.

They just repeat the phrase "I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman." Chris Christie said that, for instance. And I don't think he's considered a bigot. I'd like to see someone like that (those beliefs) come on here and debate.

06-29-2013 , 09:24 PM

#109

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

There may be a reason all the people who argue that POV never make any sense.

06-29-2013 , 10:29 PM

#110

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by PocketChads

Do YOU feel that Leviticus can be ignored? Do you think that 99% of people who consider themselves Christians actually aren't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Do you have similar views about tattooed followers of the Bible?

Jews are a bit different in that they don't follow the new testament, where the "good christians" like to say everything from the OT got swept away.

Chads, no, I don't think that if you profess the god of the bible is real and that it is based on his holy word passed down through man that Leviticus can just be ignored because it is inconvenient.

OP, thats kind of the problem I have with Christianity in general, the whole 17394765048947 different interpretations on what is true regarding a book supposedly inspired by an ominpotent god.

06-29-2013 , 10:30 PM

#111

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

Why do you have to be discrete about being gay? Do you think heteros should also be discrete? Why or why not?

06-29-2013 , 10:37 PM

#112

PocketChads

guaranteed 42-10 finish

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,449

Discrete != discreet and I'm pretty sure he spelled it how he meant it

Or maybe I misunderstood your post, 3004

06-29-2013 , 11:08 PM

#113

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

You're right, I was the one who misunderstood. So essentially it sounds like Cwoc is advocating separate but equal, which doesn't really fly here, seeing as how that was roughly a synonym for bigotry in the 50's and 60's. Like he said, maybe things are different in the Uk, but here, bigots hide behind the separate but equal stance to say "They get everything they want, we just use a different name for it" when in fact they were not getting all the same rights as married couples.

06-29-2013 , 11:20 PM

#114

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

so cwoc isn't making a "something something god" argument, he's just "well gay people are different than straight people therefore anything goes" argument?

Women are different than men, right?

So what sort of restrictions on women would be normatively justified based on that difference IYO?

Voting?

Ownership of property?

06-29-2013 , 11:29 PM

#115

Cwocwoc

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

"Civil partnerships in the United Kingdom, granted under the Civil Partnership Act 2004, give same-sex couples rights and responsibilities identical to civil marriage."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_...om#cite_note-1

06-29-2013 , 11:31 PM

#116

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Right, that isnt the case here in the States. Knowing that, do you support gay marriage becoming legal over civil partnerships in order to provide those looking to get married the same rights as hetero couples?

06-29-2013 , 11:59 PM

#117

Cwocwoc

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

My argument is that gay people should want equal civil partnerships/gay marriages rather than joint marriages with heterosexuals.

06-30-2013 , 12:01 AM

#118

Gizmo

Hottest Khaleesi

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 11,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

My argument is that gay people should want equal civil partnerships/gay marriages rather than joint marriages with heterosexuals.

Question: If gay men are like straight women, and straight women want marriage... then why wouldn't gay men want marriage?

06-30-2013 , 12:03 AM

#119

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

My argument is that gay people should want equal civil partnerships/gay marriages rather than joint marriages with heterosexuals.

Why?

06-30-2013 , 12:04 AM

#120

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

I'm not even sure what the **** "joint marriages with heterosexuals" means

06-30-2013 , 12:04 AM

#121

will1530

self-banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,773

Because, you know, they're different or something. Having a partnership that is termed "marriage" will somehow dilute the identity of gaydom everywhere.

06-30-2013 , 12:05 AM

#122

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Hi gay people ITT: do you want a marriage with straight people?

06-30-2013 , 12:06 AM

#123

Gizmo

Hottest Khaleesi

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 11,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

I'm not even sure what the **** "joint marriages with heterosexuals" means

I think he means, "sharing the word 'marriage' for their union". Like gay people shouldn't want what they're doing called marriage because they're not straight and the word marriage has traditionally been defined by straight people doing it.