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06-28-2013 , 04:50 PM

#26

Cwocwoc

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

I think we found our bigot!

Please just address the points raised.

Matt S - This is why no-one can be bothered to debate this. There are too many abusive, feral posters.

06-28-2013 , 04:50 PM

#27

2/325Falcon

Conehead

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 21,907

I live in a house.

06-28-2013 , 04:51 PM

#28

LirvA

banned

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 43,574

Never try to pick up a feral poster. They may have rabies, and they'll try to claw your eyes out.

06-28-2013 , 04:54 PM

#29

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

"The subject of Judaism and sexual orientation dates back to the Torah, in the books of Bere**** and Vayiqra. Bere**** (Genesis) treats the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by God. Vayiqra (Leviticus) forbids sexual intercourse between males, classifying it as a to'eivah (something abhorred or detested) that can be subject to capital punishment under halakha (Jewish law)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism...al_orientation

It is a delusion to believe that you are sharing in something that straight people do. Gay relationships are still different to heterosexual ones whatever status you put on them. This is my main objection to gay marriage. I am happy to live in a pluralist society where people get equal rights but I'd rather that we didn't pretend that things which are different are the same.

A) is this a "you're not jewish enough" argument? More pertenently, who gives a ****? whatever the torah says, I don't care. This is a question of law, not theology.

B) again, who gives a **** if he's deluded or not? I mean, he's not, but it doesn't even matter.

06-28-2013 , 04:56 PM

#30

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

How can you prohibit them if they don't meet the gender requirements in the first place ? It's like saying it's complaining that Andy Roddick is prohibited from entering the Women's Singles competition at Wimbledon !

See, Lirva, it's exactly like that.

06-28-2013 , 05:11 PM

#31

2/325Falcon

Conehead

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 21,907

I think we're going to need to see some Roddick pics in a tennis dress.

06-28-2013 , 05:18 PM

#32

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

B) again, who gives a **** if he's deluded or not? I mean, he's not, but it doesn't even matter.

No, wait, I like where this is going! Because I think cwocwoc is deluded, so I'm curious what fundamental rights we can strip him of for my wildly uninformed opinion on his state of mind?

@ pow

i think the word you want is barren

06-28-2013 , 05:18 PM

#33

POW

banned

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 942

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

How is it sensible to demand equality if it is physically beyond you ?

You can force others to say it (apparently) but it still isn't the same ; it's a delusion. I prefer honest acceptance of diversity and equal rights. That's healthy reality and it's called pluralism.

Why does physical difference have anything to do with how you treat couples? Are fat couples not like regular couples? What about baron couples, do they need to be addressed separately?

06-28-2013 , 05:33 PM

#34

Effen

CRAB

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 24,004

ITT bigots feel persecuted

06-28-2013 , 05:52 PM

#35

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Did you really just cite a ****ing metaphor as an argument? HOLY ****

06-28-2013 , 05:55 PM

#36

UFO1947

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,098

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimAfternoon

It has nothing to do with people's attractions -- it has to do with the psychological effects on children growing up in a gay household.

We know that children who grow up in stable opposite sex households are far better off than children growing up in any other environment (divorced parents, etc.). This is the state's interest in promoting marriage.

Marriage is an institution created by states to further a state interest (which is creating an optimal setting for children to be raised in).

The problem with this argument is that states like CA already allow gay couples to adopt children, so it carries no weight there.

maybe if bigots didn't make them feel crappy about it they wouldn't have any issues

06-28-2013 , 05:56 PM

#37

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

Well spotted ! Both are the same species lol. However there are differences. They are discussed in books like "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus"

"The book states that most of common relationship problems between men and women are a result of fundamental psychological differences between the genders, which the author exemplifies by means of its eponymous metaphor: that men and women are from distinct planets – men from Mars and women from Venus –- and that each gender is acclimatised to its own planet's society and customs, but not to those of the other."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Are...Are_from_Venus

Did you, uhh, read your own wiki link?

Quote:

The book has been criticized for placing human psychology into stereotypes.[6][7][8][9][10] In 2002, author Julia T. Wood published a critical response to the portrayal of the genders in Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus.[11] In 2004 a Purdue University communications professor said that based on research she conducted using questionnaires and interviews, men and women are not so different and "books like John Gray's Men are From Mars and Women are From Venus and Deborah Tannen's You Just Don't Understand tell men that being masculine means dismissing feelings and downplaying problems. That isn't what most men do, and it isn't good for either men or women."[12]
Michael Kimmel, a professor of Sociology at Stony Brook University, further supports the assertion that men and women are not fundamentally different, contrary to what Gray suggests in his book. He also challenges Gray’s premise that all men are essentially the same, and that all women are essentially the same. In Kimmel’s 2008 lecture at Middlebury College in Vermont, titled Venus, Mars, or Planet Earth? Women and Men in a New Millennium, Kimmel contends that the perceived differences between men and women are ultimately a social construction, and that socially and politically, men and women want the same things. Furthermore, Kimmel argues that there is greater variation within the gender categories of men and women than there is between men and women.

Kimmel supports this claim that women and men are socially and politically alike by tracking some of the historical changes women have gone through in the generations leading up to the present. Through developments such as co-education, the acknowledgement of gender as a master status, the increasing presence of women in the workforce, and the sexual revolution, Kimmel argues that women and men today have many of the same social and political concerns. These include political concerns such as parental leave, on-site childcare, and flexible work hours, and social concerns such as entitlement to pleasure.

Kimmel concludes his argument by suggesting that men begin to take accountability in areas traditionally labeled as ‘women’s issues’ such as rape culture, safe sex practices, and other areas commonly considered gender specific, and considers men’s involvement in these issues imperative if they are to be properly addressed. He contends that, contrary to Gray’s argument, men and women are not fundamentally different, and share common social and political goals.[13]

A study involving over 13,000 individuals shows that men and women generally do not fall into different groups. "Thus, contrary to the assertions of pop psychology titles like Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, it is untrue that men and women think about their relationships in qualitatively different ways,"[14]

06-28-2013 , 06:03 PM

#38

Cwocwoc

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,684

@MrWookie

"Thus, contrary to the assertions of pop psychology titles like Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, it is untrue that men and women think about their relationships in qualitatively different ways,"

That is not in accord with my own first-hand observations. For example I have observed that men are more predatory and more interested in sex. There are many strip clubs and brothels catering for men's appetites but few equivalent establishments for "horny" women. If a woman goes to a bar for sex she will usually find willing males. This is not always true the other way around.

06-28-2013 , 06:05 PM

#39

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Mars_and_Venus

I'd love to see some of that pop psych. stuff come up in a court of law, for the lols.

Last edited by spanktehbadwookie; 06-28-2013 at 06:06 PM. Reason: Crap wrong forum again. sry mat

06-28-2013 , 06:14 PM

#40

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky

if/ when gangsta returns i will be deleting all the posts

WTF IS THIS **** DOT JPG

the whole point of this forum was no deletions!!!

06-28-2013 , 06:19 PM

#41

Mat Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,070

i won't delete. i'll just move them.

i want to see people who really care about this issue and feel personally affected have a conversation without being disrupted.

06-28-2013 , 06:22 PM

#42

PocketChads

guaranteed 42-10 finish

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,449

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky

if/ when gangsta returns i will be deleting all the posts from individuals who are not homosexual or opposed to government acceptance of same sex marriage.

people not in that category should participate in a different thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...3&postcount=45

separate but equal, eh? Why do you hate straight people who have critical thinking abilities

06-28-2013 , 06:24 PM

#43

AllBlackDan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 6,329

Is it ok for 2 gay parents to raise their kid to be gay?

Different thread?

06-28-2013 , 06:24 PM

#44

lozen

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 24,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky

Will you be conducting a test? I kinda have a man crush on Tin Mcgraw right now but want to jump Taylor Swift so would I be able to participate?

06-28-2013 , 06:30 PM

#45

PocketChads

guaranteed 42-10 finish

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,449

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllBlackDan

Is it ok for 2 gay parents to raise their kid to be gay?

Different thread?

How would one do this

06-28-2013 , 06:32 PM

#46

POW

banned

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 942

Quote:

Originally Posted by lozen

Will you be conducting a test? I kinda have a man crush on Tin Mcgraw right now but want to jump Taylor Swift so would I be able to participate?

[img]http://s17.************/no0o0o9kr/dave.jpg[/img]

06-28-2013 , 06:52 PM

#47

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky

I want to see people who really care about this issue and feel personally affected have a conversation without being disrupted.

Well that's sort of the problem. The only people who are affected are on one side of the issue. The people who feel affected are on both sides. I'm not sure why someone who feels affected should have their opinion on the same level as someone who is affected.

Rather, why do people who feel affected and are against gay marriage matter more than people who feel affected and are for gay marriage?

06-28-2013 , 06:58 PM

#48

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwocwoc

hahahaohwow.jpg

06-28-2013 , 08:36 PM

#49

Mat Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

you can have all the discussion you want about that. i set up the thread and made the rules. since there are people willing to participate under the circumstances that's just how it goes.

if the thread takes off i will explain my rationale more, later. or via pm if you're super curious.