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Old 03-01-2017, 06:58 PM   #2376
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
I have a feeling the border agents knew this guy was coming before he got there. You left out the part about how the border agents found a picture of him with a guy who allegedly left Canada to go to Syria to fight along side Islamic terrorists.

I think they should have explained (and they may have) to him why they weren't letting him cross the border since a lot of people are assuming his race could have played a part.
So, the 19 year old university track student was denied entry into your country because he went to the same mosque as a suspected terrorist and you think this is OK? He was trying to enter into your country for a track meet, with many other student athletes. You think that dude shouldn't be let in? Really?
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:04 PM   #2377
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Re: President Trump

Don't know if it's been mentioned (sorry don't have much time so forced to grunch) but a report came out that of the 10 safest cities in America, 8/10 are over represented by illegal immigrants.

Granted, there's more to the argument against illegal immigration, but the whole they're raping our wives narrative needs to stop
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:11 PM   #2378
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Re: President Trump

AG Sessions Says DOJ to ‘Pull Back’ on Police Department Civil Rights Suits

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Donald Trump's attorney general said Tuesday the Justice Department will limit its use of a tactic employed aggressively under President Obama — suing police departments for violating the civil rights of minorities.

"We need, so far as we can, to help police departments get better, not diminish their effectiveness. And I'm afraid we've done some of that," said Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

"So we're going to try to pull back on this," he told a meeting of the nation's state attorneys general in Washington.
Keep in mind that when Sessions says this, it means he wants things like the Ferguson DoJ report to never happen. He wants those kinds of abuses to continue and persist around the country.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:28 PM   #2379
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
AG Sessions Says DOJ to ‘Pull Back’ on Police Department Civil Rights Suits



Keep in mind that when Sessions says this, it means he wants things like the Ferguson DoJ report to never happen. He wants those kinds of abuses to continue and persist around the country.
What were the outcomes of these law suits? Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:49 PM   #2380
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by adios View Post
What were the outcomes of these law suits? Thanks in advance.
From the linked article:

Quote:
Under the Obama Administration, the Justice Department opened 25 investigations into police departments and sheriff's offices and was enforcing 19 agreements at the end of 2016, resolving civil rights lawsuits filed against police departments in Ferguson, Missouri; Baltimore, New Orleans, Cleveland and 15 other cities.
As for what those agreements look like, you'd have to research them on a case by case basis. This article outlines the settlement the DoJ was working on with the city of Ferguson:

Quote:
The federal and local authorities had spent months negotiating a settlement that would have prohibited police officers from making arrests without probable cause, installed a federal monitor and barred officers from using stun guns as punishment.
The city council then shot it down and the DoJ sued, but the latest I can find (there may be newer updates available) is this article from roughly a month later which suggests Ferguson was getting ready to accept the deal in exchange for the DoJ dropping the suit.

This article from January reports on rumors of what the DoJ agreed on with the city of Baltimore (again, newer info may be available).


As for things like the Ferguson DoJ report, this RedState opinion article explains from a conservative perspective (that, in this instance, I agree with) what is important to take away from it. No one should be comfortable with the kind of policing that was taking place in Ferguson.

But not only will the Jeff Sessions DoJ no longer engage in such investigations and lawsuits - Jeff Sessions has not even read the Ferguson report (which did not stop him from attacking it anyway).
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:59 PM   #2381
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Re: President Trump

Your link to the outcomes didn't provide any info maybe it is my phone. Could you post some of the results here so we can discuss then? Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:38 PM   #2382
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Re: President Trump

I assume the quote I included about the DoJ agreement with Ferguson would help answer that, and here's a snippet from the Baltimore article about what their agreement entails:

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The Baltimore consent decree is expected to mandate changes to a range of policing policies, tactics and operations, including how officers conduct street enforcement, respond to sexual assault complaints, and interact with youths, protesters and those with mental illnesses.

It is also expected to require the Police Department to introduce new layers of oversight for officers, new methods of tracking misconduct and other data, new training, and major investments in modern technologies — including mobile computers in patrol vehicles — to streamline operations and enhance data retention and analysis.

Pugh has said the agreement will call for civilians to serve on police trial boards that assess officer wrongdoing, but police union officials say the decree cannot supersede the union's collective bargaining agreement with the city, which bars civilian participation.
From the DoJ's webpage, details on their agreement with Cleveland:

Quote:
The comprehensive agreement calls for:
  • The creation of Community Police Commission, made up of ten representatives from across the community, and one representative each from the Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, the Fraternal Order of Police and the Black Shield.
  • CDP to reform use of force policies, including requirements for the use of de-escalation techniques whenever possible and appropriate, a prohibition on retaliatory force, mandatory reporting and investigation standards following use of force, and medical care for the subjects of force.
  • CDP to integrate bias-free policing principles into all levels of the organization, including comprehensive training of officers and supervisors, which is to be developed with community input.
  • CDP to create a Mental Health Response Advisory Committee and provide all officers with sufficient training to identify and appropriately respond to situations involving individuals in crisis. CDP will develop a plan to ensure these specialized officers are always available to respond to calls related to those in mental-health crisis.
  • CDP to improve officer training by ensuring that it reflects the needs of officers and that it is effective.
  • CDP to improve equipment and resources available to officers following a comprehensive equipment and resource study to assess its current needs and priorities, including providing officers with functioning, up-to-date technology in their zone cars that allows them to access necessary information; safe zone cars; and first aid equipment.
  • CDP to develop a recruiting policy and strategic recruitment plan that includes clear goals, objectives and action steps for attracting qualified applicants from a broad cross-section of the community. CDP will consult with the Community Police Commission and other stakeholders on strategies to attract a diverse pool of applicants.
Again, these are three examples out of 19 agreements the DoJ had with city police forces at the end of Obama's term.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:07 PM   #2383
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Initial thoughts on Trump's speech (I recorded and watched later):

- first 5 minutes seemed good, I started wondering if this was going to be a transformational speech where he changes gears and actually tries to unite the country
- butnahhhhh
- draining the swamp: as has been outlined many times here, claims that Trump is doing anything but making government corruption worse is utter garbage; he'd be better off never mentioning that phrase again and pretending it didn't happen

- infrastructure spending: I'm actually glad that he managed to get a party that 8 years ago thought a $1T stimulus package was going to be socialism taking away our freedom and our jerbs to stand up and cheer loudly for the same proposal. Good for Trump lobbying for big government spending programs! As a liberal, I'm a fan.

- on health care: this segment illustrated the problem Republicans have with reforming health care quite well. Half the things he mentioned that the new program needs to do are things that Obamacare already does; Obamacare is popular, if you don't associate it with the president that instituted it. And it's still, as it's always been, totally nebulous how you make this kind of plan work without an individual mandate; by complaining about it so hard for the last 8 years, Republicans have kind of painted themselves into a corner for ever coming up with a workable plan.

- immigration: I do not use this word likely - go search for me using the word "nazi" if you don't believe me - but VOICE is some serious nazi ****. Dude is creating an entire office dedicated to propagandize immigrants as scary criminals. Truly frightening for the government to be engaging in such behavior. This has Bannon's fingerprints all over it.

- additionally on immigration, pokerodox - contrast the language Trump used to describe the people being removed from the country atm (bad dudes, dangers to their communities, etc) with the stories we've seen of people being removed who are the opposite of that

Probably some other things I'm forgetting off the top of my head that I'll remember later
Just for the record, 1T in discounts is basically not in the same universe as 1T in gov't spending. He's using the 2 interchangeably when he talks about his 1T infrastructure plan
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:15 PM   #2384
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Re: President Trump

Trump lied to a grieving widow last night--there was no significant intel captured in the raid.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:16 PM   #2385
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Re: President Trump

Jeff Sessions lied in confirmation hearings
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:20 PM   #2386
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:24 PM   #2387
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Re: President Trump

Sessions lying about having contact with Russia during his confirmation hearings seems like a pretty bad strategy for dispelling all these Trump-Russia allegations.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:28 PM   #2388
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Re: President Trump

From what I just read Sessions has a worse memory than stereotypical pot smokers.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:34 PM   #2389
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by einbert View Post
Trump lied to a grieving widow last night--there was no significant intel captured in the raid.
Out of curiosity, if you were, say, an EMT in an ambulance and was first on the scene to a car accident and witnessed an awful, drawn out death happening to the victim in the car, when you meet that person's family are you the type of person to tell them there was no suffering and the death was instant, or tell them how awful it actually was?

Your point in this post, even if correct (not to mention it was set in motion during the Obama administration), eludes me.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:46 PM   #2390
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Re: President Trump

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Old 03-01-2017, 10:50 PM   #2391
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Re: President Trump

The bigger question is not what will happen to Sessions, but WHY did he lie in the first place. Why not just say you talked to a Russian ambassador. He's trying to cover up something.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:58 PM   #2392
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Re: President Trump

Man tweets about long list of people who've lied. Names 4 people. Got it.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:18 PM   #2393
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Out of curiosity, if you were, say, an EMT in an ambulance and was first on the scene to a car accident and witnessed an awful, drawn out death happening to the victim in the car, when you meet that person's family are you the type of person to tell them there was no suffering and the death was instant, or tell them how awful it actually was?

Your point in this post, even if correct (not to mention it was set in motion during the Obama administration), eludes me.
lmao at this being a rebuttal. try harder.

POTUS just straight up lying to the widow of a dead solider is OK because, hey, it's in her best interest to not know the truth.

only thing dumber would be claiming FOUR (at LEAST four) nominees lying in confirmation hearings is not a long list by nominee standards...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Man tweets about long list of people who've lied. Names 4 people. Got it.
oh wait. ok yep makes sense now.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:33 PM   #2394
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by ymmv View Post
lmao at this being a rebuttal. try harder.

POTUS just straight up lying to the widow of a dead solider is OK because, hey, it's in her best interest to not know the truth.

only thing dumber would be claiming FOUR (at LEAST four) nominees lying in confirmation hearings is not a long list by nominee standards...

oh wait. ok yep makes sense now.
Let's go through the actual situation. Let's say you are correct in the assessment that no good intelligence was gathered by the raid, and we lost a guy in the process. Who, actually, is to blame for that, and why does that somehow make a difference in the death that occurred? Especially so in terms of the widow?

The man was doing his ****ing job and he died in the process of it. It wasn't his call and I don't think a single person thinks anyone purposefully sent a special forces team on a raid simply to waste their time, correct?

So even if a mistake was made, and there's no way to tell if it even was a mistake, what good comes out of saying so? They made a decision and they went with it. Sometimes that doesn't work out, as anyone here who has ever had to make a hard call knows. You make the best decision you can at the time with the information available.

What good comes out of creating an atmosphere where the person's family feels as if they may have died in vain? It's downright insulting. The men fighting and putting their lives on the line do it without question and they are more than willing to carry out orders that are deemed necessary. You think they don't know that sometimes the results aren't optimal?

I really wonder about you people sometimes. Do you ever stop and think about these topics you spew about?

Should Trump have said "too bad your husband died for nothing, lol. Thanks Obama."?

I really question the motives for posts like yours. They never want to lose a guy like that and I'm sure there's some real heartache behind the scenes, by the people who made the call, over his death. Those men bleed country and people like you sit back and criticize like children after the fact. You'll pump your fist chanting USA when they take out Osama but when there's a mistake somewhere all you do is *****.

You sitting here taking a cheap shot over it because you want to trash Trump is kind of despicable.

Last edited by wil318466; 03-01-2017 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:46 PM   #2395
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Re: President Trump

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So even if a mistake was made, and there's no way to tell if it even was a mistake, what good comes out of saying so?
Stopping more troops from getting pointlessly to their deaths? Jesus ****ing Christ wil this is a nuclear hot take.

You are advocating for applying zero critical scrutiny to the operations of our military - the operation of which is perhaps the single greatest responsibility of the office of the presidency - lest we upset anyone's feelings. I could also point out that the president you support paraded Benghazi Mom on stage at the RNC but that's frankly boring in the face of how plainly stupid your logic is here.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:50 PM   #2396
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Stopping more troops from getting pointlessly to their deaths? Jesus ****ing Christ wil this is a nuclear hot take.

You are advocating for applying zero critical scrutiny to the operations of our military - the operation of which is perhaps the single greatest responsibility of the office of the presidency - lest we upset anyone's feelings. I could also point out that the president you support paraded Benghazi Mom on stage at the RNC but that's frankly boring in the face of how plainly stupid your logic is here.
Amazing. The level of ignorance here is stunning.

Even after knowing the story behind the bin laden raid, knowing the decision Obama faced and the circumstances behind it, you can say the above with a straight face? Really? Really?

We can only be happy that people like you aren't in charge of making tough decisions. Combined with your previous posts I think it gives good insight on the type of attitude you have towards everything.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:52 PM   #2397
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Amazing. The level of ignorance here is stunning.

Even after knowing the story behind the bin laden raid, knowing the decision Obama faced and the circumstances behind it, you can say the above with a straight face? Really? Really?

We can only be happy that people like you aren't in charge of making tough decisions. Combined with your previous posts I think it gives good insight on the type of attitude you have towards everything.
zero arguments presented here so I guess we're done
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:54 PM   #2398
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Stopping more troops from getting pointlessly to their deaths? Jesus ****ing Christ wil this is a nuclear hot take.

You are advocating for applying zero critical scrutiny to the operations of our military - the operation of which is perhaps the single greatest responsibility of the office of the presidency - lest we upset anyone's feelings. I could also point out that the president you support paraded Benghazi Mom on stage at the RNC but that's frankly boring in the face of how plainly stupid your logic is here.
"Benghazi Mom".

Jesus Christ. Have you people no respect at all for grieving families.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:58 PM   #2399
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Re: President Trump

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zero arguments presented here so I guess we're done
We weren't really discussing anything. I was informing you about something you were ignorant about. It wasn't a back and forth and I sure as hell wasn't considering your side of it. Lol @ Monday morning quarterbacking a special forces operation with data you have no idea about.

But hey, you get to spew your nonsensical opinion on the internet!
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:38 AM   #2400
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Re: President Trump

He needed to take responsibility in some way shape or form rather than farm the blame out onto others. That is how you lead. He makes the decision, he damn sure would take the credit, then he needs to say he made a poor choice on limited information.

I get people arrested based on my decisions and I have a say in their freedom and whether they go to prison, and I take ownership if something I did was based on lack of information and ended with a poor result, why shouldn't the president of the united states do it on matters much bigger than mine.
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