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President Trump President Trump

02-28-2017 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Oh hey pdox, you're still here - I left this post for you yesterday, assumed you were still catching up.
Yah, I read one of your articles, I replied to it. After that, it seems obvious (as I replied to another poster) that there will be a chilling effect, which I believe was the main point of your other three articles. So, I'm agreeing with you that there's a huge chilling effect, but I'm still saying we have to reduce the number of people illegally residing here.

I didn't see anyone engaging my points though. Maybe I missed something. I'll go back.

Oh, now I'm remembering, you commented on the non-felony people swept up. If they are questioned/held and not charged or arrested and certainly not deported, I don't see any problem.

But back to my main point, we just have to get all the illegal immigrants documented and start them through the process of getting visas. The problem is with under-enforcement, not over-enforcement. Getting out of this legal hole we are in will definitely be messy (meaning some innocent lives will be damaged). We should strive to minimize that, but we should not ignore the situation.

I maintain that rounding up illegal immigrants convicted of felonies and deporting them is a good idea. I admitted that felony ID fraud to obtain a job should not be included. Now we have the question of where to round them up. I concede that using a domestic violence hearing is a bad idea. Maybe if the person is guilty of a minor drug trafficking felony (dare I call that minor?), then we should not track them down at a domestic violence hearing. But if murder, then get them where you can, imho. What if grand theft? I thought no-one addressed my questions, but I'll go back and check.

Unless I missed it, you didn't respond to my point re unemployment. You said I was arrogant for guessing that there would be 30% unemployment among those making less than $15/hr if minimum wage was increased to $15/hr. As I said above, my estimate would equate to 19M people thrown into unemployment. I found articles saying there would be 6M and 15M (if memory serves) thrown into unemployment due to an increase to $15/hr. Does that change your view of my guesswork in this case?
02-28-2017 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Bahbah your claim that racism has declined in recent years has been challenged. You don't have to justify your claims so far if you don't wish. However, as per the rules, you need to be providing credible sources if you wish to continue repeating or defending it.

Also - and this applies to everyone - please don't make an issue out of the person posting rather than the content of the argument.
Thanks you chez for saying this and not straight banning me. The last leader of PU, Ker Jung Owo, would have temp banned me for responding to posts about one particular topic just like how I was perma-ed from politics for repeatedly responding to posts challenging a particular belief I had.

I will continue to try to find research on this topic, but it is extremely scarce to find research on how many racist employers or landlords they are year over year since they blame a lack of minorities (that they hire or pick to live in their homes) on many other factors. There have been a few studies done on particular industries or particular cities, but I've never come across a study that spans a significant amount of time (5+ years).

Even with saying all this I would be extremely surprised if the people asking for sources (or the ones not admitting that I'm right) truly believed housing and hiring practices aren't less racist today. I'm not saying literally today (2/28/17) is the least racist day I am just pointing that racism has had a downward trend for a long day (I am picturing a graph that is running the opposite way the stock market has for the past 100 years - we may not be right at the all-time low but we are certainly close and there is a very obvious trend).
02-28-2017 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Citation required.
You are really bad at this game.
02-28-2017 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar
7% is just the beginning. It will be down 20 by the end of the year.
I think you are probably right, but I would like to take the under on tourism being down 19.9% please.

Does venmo work? What is the max bet?
02-28-2017 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Well, there was the recent roundup where I think ~25% of the people detained in raids didn't have felony convictions but I think you wrote that one off as collateral damage. We've gone a little bit down this road and every step of the way you've found a reason to justify the administration's actions even as they deter farther from their original promises.
If they are starting to deport non-felony convicted people with citizen (or even, Dreamer) children, I would be disturbed, but as far as I know, they are still only deporting those convicted of felonies, even if some others get detained/questioned.
02-28-2017 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
I think you are probably right, but I would like to take the under on tourism being down 19.9% please.

Does venmo work? What is the max bet?
Lol. Bold move. No thanks. If you'd like we can bet for a donation to Rescue.org, but we'll need to come up with a better measurement of when it's down.
02-28-2017 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
I am just pointing that racism has had a downward trend for a long day (I am picturing a graph that is running the opposite way the stock market has for the past 100 years - we may not be right at the all-time low but we are certainly close and there is a very obvious trend).
Nobody has disagreed with you about this. No one. Stop pretending this is the argument.
02-28-2017 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerodox
But back to my main point, we just have to get all the illegal immigrants documented and start them through the process of getting visas. The problem is with under-enforcement, not over-enforcement. Getting out of this legal hole we are in will definitely be messy (meaning some innocent lives will be damaged). We should strive to minimize that, but we should not ignore the situation.
How do we get the illegal immigrants documented at the same time we're putting them in fear of getting deported at any moment? This seems like an empty platitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerodox
Unless I missed it, you didn't respond to my point re unemployment. You said I was arrogant for guessing that there would be 30% unemployment among those making less than $15/hr if minimum wage was increased to $15/hr. As I said above, my estimate would equate to 19M people thrown into unemployment. I found articles saying there would be 6M and 15M (if memory serves) thrown into unemployment due to an increase to $15/hr. Does that change your view of my guesswork in this case?
It does not change my view that pulling numbers out of your ass to try to win an argument is and will always be a chicken**** move. Don't be lazy, source things. I appreciate that you ultimately did so.
02-28-2017 , 06:41 PM
The Anne Frank Center thinks Trump is anti-semitic:

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...05337285697538
02-28-2017 , 06:44 PM
What's this? Oh look it's a pamphlet recruiting and raising money for a white supremacist organization, The Republican Party.


https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/836699006952689669
02-28-2017 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar
Lol. Bold move. No thanks. If you'd like we can bet for a donation to Rescue.org, but we'll need to come up with a better measurement of when it's down.
Dang I thought you really believed it would be down 20%. I'm down for betting a donation to a charity of the winners choosing.
02-28-2017 , 06:51 PM
Trump Says Hes Open to Legal Pathway for Undocumented Immigrants

Quote:
President Trump, signaling a potential major shift in policy, told news anchors on Tuesday that he is open to a broad immigration overhaul that would grant legal status to millions of undocumented immigrants who have not committed serious crimes.
Good for him! Some rare legitimate good news to come out of this administration. I'm sure his supporters will be furious and feel betrayed.
02-28-2017 , 06:53 PM
Start with all arrest records. Somehow, every arrest of an illegal immigrant should result in a documentation. That person should get a federal ID, like a social security card, but without benefits, just an ID. Maybe same for traffic violations.

Eliminate sanctuary cities (meaning obtain the compliance of city police with ICE efforts). Maybe this could be done by using enough national guard to make up for all the bull**** police departments that are refusing to assist ICE. Maybe it's a real funding problem for the cities, and the federal government should offer massively increased funding in exchange for full compliance with ICE efforts. There may be some Constitutional Law questions here I haven't thought of, but documentation should be the place to start.
02-28-2017 , 06:55 PM
Not one bit betrayed. I was already going this direction. However, I hope it's orderly and doesn't give status to criminals.
02-28-2017 , 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
Dang I thought you really believed it would be down 20%. I'm down for betting a donation to a charity of the winners choosing.
Nah. I have to trust you enough that you'll actually send a donation, but I don't trust you to pick it. Has to be a refugee charity, and please name it now.
02-28-2017 , 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Trump Says Hes Open to Legal Pathway for Undocumented Immigrants



Good for him! Some rare legitimate good news to come out of this administration. I'm sure his supporters will be furious and feel betrayed.
Channeling reagan, trying to score a win in an administration that badly needs one. Good for undocumenteds. It's a step, but I worry that sessions et al just proceed to oppress the **** out of immigrants and brown people anyway.
02-28-2017 , 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Trump Says Hes Open to Legal Pathway for Undocumented Immigrants



Good for him! Some rare legitimate good news to come out of this administration. I'm sure his supporters will be furious and feel betrayed.
Doubt the majority of his supporters will. Pretty sure the Republicans offered this a long time ago and Obama demanded citizenship or no deal.
02-28-2017 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Trump Says Hes Open to Legal Pathway for Undocumented Immigrants



Good for him! Some rare legitimate good news to come out of this administration. I'm sure his supporters will be furious and feel betrayed.
I get you don't like TRUMP. Depends on what he is putting on the table but yeah that could happen.
02-28-2017 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogallalabob
Doubt the majority of his supporters will.
I'm not aware of any form of his immigration platform that involved doing positive things (i.e. legal status) for immigrants, as opposed to negative things (deporting them, building the wall, banning Muslims, etc). This is a not-insignificant reversal, and I think how his base reacts to it will tell us how much they believed in his immigration rhetoric versus how much they're just part of his cult of personality.
02-28-2017 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I'm not aware of any form of his immigration platform that involved doing positive things (i.e. legal status) for immigrants, as opposed to negative things (deporting them, building the wall, banning Muslims, etc). This is a not-insignificant reversal, and I think how his base reacts to it will tell us how much they believed in his immigration rhetoric versus how much they're just part of his cult of personality.
Under what circumstances would you accept a wall as a compromise? Say dreamers get citizenship, he offers a guest worker program, offers a path to citizenship for otherwise law abiding illegals, are you in ?
02-28-2017 , 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
Under what circumstances would you accept a wall as a compromise? Say dreamers get citizenship, he offers a guest worker program, offers a path to citizenship for otherwise law abiding illegals, are you in ?
Sure! None of those things would make his $20 billion racist symbol any less stupid, but if we could coax him into doing some decent humanitarian things in exchange for getting to build it, that sounds great.
02-28-2017 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
You are really bad at this game.
Nah, I just call it as I see it. You were spouting unsubstantiated BS, so I called you out on it.
02-28-2017 , 07:35 PM
Of course if all the illegals are deported there are none left to be given legal status.
02-28-2017 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Sure! None of those things would make his $20 billion racist symbol any less stupid, but if we could coax him into doing some decent humanitarian things in exchange for getting to build it, that sounds great.
Cool
02-28-2017 , 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
Of course if all the illegals are deported there are none left to be given legal status.
TRUMP has pretty much stated he's ok with the dreamers at least.

      
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