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Old 02-28-2017, 02:53 PM   #2176
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Re: President Trump

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Old 02-28-2017, 02:58 PM   #2177
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Re: President Trump

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Old 02-28-2017, 03:27 PM   #2178
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
The reason I keep bringing up the point that there is less racism today than at any other point in our history is because there are many liberals out there that truly believe racism is way worse today than in previous years. Sometimes I have to remind people that just because you hear more about racism doesn't equal more racism.

The reason I brought it up this time was because someone posted about how a few Indian students may not come to the US anymore because they are mis-informed about the racism in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
It is not my opinion that there is less racism today - it really is a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
There is no reasonable measure out there that suggests there is more racism in any time period before now. This is not my opinion. This is a matter of fact.
So, we can do this now, thanks to the forum rules:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
7) Citations. If posters make a claim without a citation in a Content thread and are then challenged by other posters then the initial post will not be deleted but the claim should not be repeated or defended without a credible source being provided.
Mickey: Either cite that racism is declining (and I don't mean compared to 1960, I mean compared to a few years ago) or shut up and stop making the claim.
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:36 PM   #2179
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Re: President Trump

I think everyone would agree that there's less racism and general bigotry than maybe 50 years ago (or even 25 years ago), but that's not really relevant to the impact of donald trump and the general trajectory of where the country is going. He's only been president for about a month now.

It's not so explicit in the policy as much as it is in the tone of how he speaks on issues. No sane person thinks it's a coincidence that he repeatedly tweeted stormfront inspired content. There's no one dumb enough to not see the patronizing tone he takes when dealing with minorities. No one's naive enough to believe that a guy who's shown no sign of maturation over the past 30 years would just happened to have changed his position on that one issue.

There're just a lot of people experiencing cognitive dissonance so that they require an unrealistic burden of proof, and then there're people who think that he is - and that's why they like him.

Last edited by Abbaddabba; 02-28-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:01 PM   #2180
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Re: President Trump

Marco Rubio, 2009:

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Old 02-28-2017, 04:11 PM   #2181
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by sylar View Post
Then calling out racist crimes for what they are is probably the best line you can take. Your line of arguing that immigrant communities shouldn't feel scared is moot and irrelevant. They are scared, they see an uptick in violence against all minorities, not just Indians. Some of it is done by our enforcement agencies. How can you deny what they are feeling? "Don't worry community that just lost a member, years ago he probably would have been subject to a lot more racism." If you want to make a comment on what they are feeling, you should say "we will prosecute this guy, and anyone else who is going walking around attacking random brown people."
I will continue to call out racist crimes.
I never said immigrant communities shouldn't feel scared.

I will also continue to call out people who to try to downplay the amazing work politicians, civil right activists and normal every day people have done in curbing racism in this country.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:12 PM   #2182
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Re: President Trump

Trump grades his presidency so far in Fox interview and gives himself:

- A+ for effort. Seems legit:

Trump in 2015: "I would rarely leave the White House" (in reality: LOL Florida vacations)

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Old 02-28-2017, 04:15 PM   #2183
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Re: President Trump

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Again, I believe the growth in the economy we will see from goaTRUMP (as opposed if we had hillary or 8 more years of obama) will overcome a 6-7% loss in tourism (as predicted by some travel magazine who probably pulled that number straight from the ass of one of their employers who probably understands less about the economy than obama). I think the whole of the country especially the poor are way better off under Trump so I don't care if we have a few less visitors.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:19 PM   #2184
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Re: President Trump

Today, Trump implies that the huge wave of anti-semitic attacks sweeping the country are false flag attacks perpetrated by Jewish people:
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:21 PM   #2185
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Re: President Trump

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Like, you gotta ask yourself, why do "conservatives" say they want less government, but then they want to go back to enforcing a federal ban on MJ, bring back stop and frisk, and bring back private prisons and deport even more people than we were already deporting? That's not small government at all, those are all authoritarian actions to put white supremacy into action through violence. Same thing with less restrictive gun laws, "stand your ground" laws that have been shown to be racially applied through the courts, and Voter ID laws which make it harder for minorities to vote. These are all big government ideas. The only time they really want small govt is when it comes to enforcing civil rights, like with the transgender bathroom memo put out by Trump's admin. This is why "state's rights" is such a sham. It's always a state's right to disenfranchise or take away civil/human rights from its citizens that they're arguing for.
I don't agree at all about them being the same. I think the white supremacists (or elitests in general which is i think a more fitting term) just find left wing politics distasteful because it takes from the strong and gives to the weak, and if you believe that people basically get what they deserve in life then that's a distasteful act. Of course you don't have to be an elitest to believe that (nor would all elitests agree with that). Often it's just people who're completely out of touch with reality wrt the influence of chance in terms of what takes place or doesn't take place in the early developmental years. So you get a lot of people like ben shapiro who're not really racist, but kind of delusional in their own way, and have strong opinions about how it's immoral for the state to have any involvement in peoples lives beyond protecting property rights because he really does think that people get what they deserve if you leave things to the free market.

For what it's worth I don't think trump is of that mindset. He has more in common with those champagne liberals that conservatives love to hate.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:22 PM   #2186
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by Victor View Post
racists have been embolded by trump rhetoric and alt right scumbags. racism is worse against all groups than it was 3-10 years ago.
Thank you for pointing out the only reasonable argument that has ever made against the point that the US is less racist today than ever before.

We have racism on the run and I see this downward curve that is getting steeper and steeper. I don't think you can say 3-10 years ago had less racism. There is far less racism in housing and hiring practices today than from that time frame and those two things alone can overcome your argument. Also, there are more people who aren't racist today but were 3-10 yrs ago than people who weren't 3-10 yrs ago but are today.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:26 PM   #2187
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Re: President Trump

How is racism on the run? The guy who was just elected President one of his main platforms was "ban all Muslims from the United States" and "build a wall on the border." Racism is alive and well in the United States, 62 million people just voted for it. On the run my ass.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:32 PM   #2188
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
Thank you for pointing out the only reasonable argument that has ever made against the point that the US is less racist today than ever before.

We have racism on the run and I see this downward curve that is getting steeper and steeper. I don't think you can say 3-10 years ago had less racism. There is far less racism in housing and hiring practices today than from that time frame and those two things alone can overcome your argument. Also, there are more people who aren't racist today but were 3-10 yrs ago than people who weren't 3-10 yrs ago but are today.
well, I think you are wrong. we have seen the rise of the alt right. we have seen a dramatic increase in racist web sites like breitbart, 4chan/8chan, and various youtubers.

and ofc, the rhetoric from our so-called leaders is just downright detestable.

you cite hiring practices and housing, but you dont provide any numbers. I have no way of knowing if you are right, but I would guess you are at least over emphasizing.

but we do know that the federal govt deemed voter id laws to disenfranchise minorities and thus should be considered racist. and our new administration has given states the go ahead to implement such policies. to me, that is institutional racism.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:34 PM   #2189
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
I don't usually post opinion articles, but this one brings up a salient fact about the administration's recent comments on potentially cracking down on recreational marijuana states: Trump said during his campaign he wouldn't do that. From this interview:



Would be a pretty disappointing breaking of a promise if he lets Sessions do that.
Disturbing comments on this subject from Sessions yesterday:

Quote:
In a meeting with reporters, Sessions said the department was reviewing an Obama administration Justice Department memo that gave states flexibility in passing marijuana laws.

"Experts are telling me there's more violence around marijuana than one would think," Sessions said.
Sounds like he's starting to lay out a public case for going after it.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:34 PM   #2190
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
The reason this whole less racism today thing came up was in response to a really stupid article (i think it was the wash. post) that quoted a few Indian students who were all of a sudden scared to come to the US because of 2 murders (that seemed to be racial motivated). I was trying to remind you all how stupid some people are and how poor the perspective can be. Your argument has proven they are not alone.
So you don't know much about the racism which is happening and how it effects people, and are arguing about that racism to make political attacks on people who notice this. And you are arguing from the partisan side which contains the racists making the racism happen.

So about rethinking your participation and knowledge on the issue of the racism which is happening?
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:46 PM   #2191
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Re: President Trump

Spicer possibly threatened and performed a hit job on a reporter who wrote a negative story about him

Since there's competing info here depending who you want to believe, I'll lay out both sides. What appears to be in agreement is: Politico reporter called Spicer to ask about claims that he made one of his employees cry. Spicer responds that the only time she cried was because she was sad about the death of the Navy SEAL.

- Spicer's side: Politico reporter then laughs at the death of the SEAL.

- Politico's side: Politico reporter then laughs at Spicer's over-the-top response. Spicer accuses the reporter of laughing at the SEAL. As Spicer and the reporter continue to communicate over the story that Politico published on Sunday, Spicer threatens he will "be sure to get that out" regarding the reporter's laugh.

Not in dispute: that story (the claim that the Politico reporter laughed at the SEAL) makes its way anonymously (of course the only person who could have even known it happened is Spicer) to the Washington Examiner.

The Post article claims there are emails where Spicer makes those threats, and I'd like to see them to know how credible their story is, but it would be a little worrying on the first amendment side of things if White House officials are threatening reporters.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:48 PM   #2192
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert View Post
How is racism on the run? The guy who was just elected President one of his main platforms was "ban all Muslims from the United States" and "build a wall on the border." Racism is alive and well in the United States, 62 million people just voted for it. On the run my ass.
Two things:

1) Muslims aren't a race. Also the ban was intended to be temporary only.

2) A wall on the border is to prevent illegal immigration. That has nothing to do with race.
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:52 PM   #2193
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Re: President Trump

Betsy DeVos on historically black colleges: they were "real pioneers when it comes to school choice", demonstrating utter cluelessness about their historical context:

Quote:
On Twitter, hundreds of angry users accused her of ignoring the fact that many of the schools were founded because black students were not allowed to attend segregated white schools, not because education pioneers wanted to give African-Americans more options in higher education.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:03 PM   #2194
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
Thank you for pointing out the only reasonable argument that has ever made against the point that the US is less racist today than ever before.

We have racism on the run and I see this downward curve that is getting steeper and steeper. I don't think you can say 3-10 years ago had less racism. There is far less racism in housing and hiring practices today than from that time frame and those two things alone can overcome your argument. Also, there are more people who aren't racist today but were 3-10 yrs ago than people who weren't 3-10 yrs ago but are today.
I'll say it again since you seemed to ignore the first post - Even if you had evidence that at some recent point in time that it was lower than ever before, that says nothing about the impact of the trump presidency which is only about a month in. It's too recent of an event for meaningful stats to have been produced in any meaningful way. What you can do is be honest with yourself about what the impact his campaign obviously had on what's always been boiling under the surface.

Whether you think he's a racist or not, a lot of people think he is (personally i think you'd have to be ******ed or deeply dishonest to not see the racist undertones), and him being elected president clearly will have an impact on young people who're still learning about the world and figuring out what THEY think.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:06 PM   #2195
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Re: President Trump

Jewish centers targeted with bomb threats day after cemetery vandalized. This article is from midday yesterday and as I mentioned last night, they continued afterwards (there was one in downtown SF). I saw Twitter rumblings that there were more today but haven't seen news reports yet.

And the response of the administration of our dear strong leader is to...blame liberals.

Pennsylvania Attorney General claims that in a meeting of state AGs with Trump today, he asked Trump about the incidents and Trump suggested they might be false flag attacks

That's not all:

Senior Trump adviser suggests Democrats might be behind JCC bomb threats

The administration's official response, from top to bottom, to anti-Semitism is to suggest it isn't legitimate. This is utterly pathetic and deplorable.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:10 PM   #2196
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
well, I think you are wrong. we have seen the rise of the alt right. we have seen a dramatic increase in racist web sites like breitbart, 4chan/8chan, and various youtubers.

and ofc, the rhetoric from our so-called leaders is just downright detestable.

you cite hiring practices and housing, but you dont provide any numbers. I have no way of knowing if you are right, but I would guess you are at least over emphasizing.

but we do know that the federal govt deemed voter id laws to disenfranchise minorities and thus should be considered racist. and our new administration has given states the go ahead to implement such policies. to me, that is institutional racism.
I can't believe people are even debating this.

There are more websites today than at any point in the history of the world so of course there is more racist sites than there ever has been. That doesn't prove anything though.

You don't think there is less racism in housing and hiring than 10 years ago? You have got to be messing with me.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:13 PM   #2197
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Re: President Trump

Mickey, did you miss this post? Forum rules dictate you either cite or STFU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
So, we can do this now, thanks to the forum rules:



Mickey: Either cite that racism is declining (and I don't mean compared to 1960, I mean compared to a few years ago) or shut up and stop making the claim.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:20 PM   #2198
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Re: President Trump

Goofy, go to bed and wake up tomorrow fresh and ready to post another 20 links to random ****ty articles ITT for us.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:21 PM   #2199
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy View Post
Two things:

1) Muslims aren't a race. Also the ban was intended to be temporary only.

2) A wall on the border is to prevent illegal immigration. That has nothing to do with race.
So the Muslim ban is technically bigoted, not racist. Same concept, just against a religion instead of a race.

For the second point, the wall on the border won't prevent illegal immigration and it makes it seem like illegal immigration from Mexico is a big problem. The wall won't solve the problem because it doesn't exist. It's a racist conspiracy to convince people of why their wages haven't risen in forty years even though GDP keeps rising massively over time (over the last forty years) and unemployment is at a very low 5%.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/2...-perhaps-less/
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:22 PM   #2200
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Re: President Trump

Temporary only? No, it was supposed to be indefinite. His exact words were "until we figure out what's going on" which could easily be four or eight years or even more. Who knows in the insane mind of Trump when we'll quote "figure out what's going on."
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