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President Trump President Trump

02-27-2017 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
"It doesn't affect me so I don't care" sums up your worldview in a nutshell quite nicely. You can continue to comment as an expert on how you feel about the world, but don't be offended when the rest of us ignore you because we're busy considering how things affect people other than you or us.
I am not in the business of picking winner and losers like the federal government is. I am sure you don't hold a double standard and you asked obama how he felt about all the people losing their jobs in the coal industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Anti-Muslim assaults reach 9/11-era levels, FBI data show. In the long trend of history racism may be falling, but in the short term hate is definitely the rise and it has a lot to do with our president. Those foreigners aren't wrong, you're wrong.
Your article is talking about data that ends in 2015. lolololololol lolololololol lolololololol lolololololol lolololololol If you are going to accuse our president of something maybe pick a time during or after his term of presidency.
02-27-2017 , 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar
JFC, it's not about the total amount of racism, it's about racist groups becoming extreme and violent.
Plus, One can argue forever about inexactly how much more or less racism there is compared to whatever and in their opinion.

It's like arguing with a racist about what the definition of racism is. It's never going to be any definition which includes them if they can help it, because then the gig is up because it ain't the openly racist "good" old days any more or yet again.
02-27-2017 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
Your article is talking about data that ends in 2015. lolololololol lolololololol lolololololol lolololololol lolololololol If you are going to accuse our president of something maybe pick a time during or after his term of presidency.
Donald Trump announced his campaign for president less than halfway through 2015. LOL acting like this is some thing he only takes responsibility for on Jan 20 2017, and the previous 18 months of talking about banning Muslims had no effect and was all Obama's fault.

Did you see aofrantic's list of Islamophobic incidents in 2016? Do you think those statistics are going to be better than 2015 when the FBI releases them later this year?
02-27-2017 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
For pokerodox - remember how I said the Trump administration's attitude towards immigrants was going to result in them hiding out and avoiding engagement with the government?

Undocumented victims of domestic violence refuse to testify out of fear of deportation, after a woman was arrested and deported from a courthouse in El Paso where she sought a restraining order against her boyfriend.

This is healthy.
I hope pokerodox is still reading the thread, there's a lot more reporting on this subject today.

Advocates warn ‘dreamers’ to lie low as Trump ramps up deportation plans - in which undocumented immigrants are encouraged to no longer apply for the DACA program that would give them temporary work permits, because it may draw attention to their immigration status and get them deported.

‘It’s fear, fear, fear’: As enforcement increases, more immigrants avoid public places - in which the lede says it all:

Quote:
The number of day laborers waiting for work outside a Hyattsville shopping center has dwindled to a couple of dozen a day, from more than 100 a few months ago. Business is slow at markets and shops in immigrant neighborhoods, and fewer foreign-born residents are coming to food pantries. In some cases, adults are skipping English classes or keeping children home from school.
Undocumented immigrants are now in fear for their safety and withdrawing from society. And that's exactly how Trump supporters want it.
02-27-2017 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie
Plus, One can argue forever about inexactly how much more or less racism there is compared to whatever and in their opinion.
No, you can't. What time period in US history was less racist today. Using almost any reasonable metric we have less racism today than any previous period. It isn't even debatable.

I have already asked this question 3-4 on 2+2 when someone posted something similar to what you just said and I have never gotten an answer.
02-27-2017 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Donald Trump announced his campaign for president less than halfway through 2015. LOL acting like this is some thing he only takes responsibility for on Jan 20 2017, and the previous 18 months of talking about banning Muslims had no effect and was all Obama's fault.

Did you see aofrantic's list of Islamophobic incidents in 2016? Do you think those statistics are going to be better than 2015 when the FBI releases them later this year?
You are really moving those field goals. Either way I am sure when the FBI releases that data there will be a higher % of racist attacks on one group and another group will have less, but overall racism (long-term) is still on the run.
02-27-2017 , 06:04 PM
"The number of day laborers waiting for work outside a Hyattsville shopping center has dwindled to a couple of dozen a day"

C'mon man. You can't be serious with this garbage. You are using one guys assessment on how many people are sitting outside of shopping center as research now. If you are going to keep posting garbage at least find a real websites to use.
02-27-2017 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
No, you can't. What time period in US history was less racist today. Using almost any reasonable metric we have less racism today than any previous period. It isn't even debatable.

I have already asked this question 3-4 on 2+2 when someone posted something similar to what you just said and I have never gotten an answer.
Yes, racists do and so do people fooled by racists. Why would opining how much or little racism is maybe happening compared to whenever matter to all the people facing bigotry and discrimination 3 months ago, yesterday, and today?

And it's not just racism, but like a whole clan of prejudices are going around to be seen.
02-27-2017 , 06:07 PM
bahbah, overall hate crime is way up in the last 18 months.

There were 16 bomb threats to Jewish community centres today. This is the 5th time this year a string of threats have been phoned to Jewish centres. I'm sure it's just a massive coincidence that Bannon/Miller have lots of anti semitic views.
02-27-2017 , 06:27 PM
Chris Christie tells Republican congresscritters afraid of town halls to go do their jobs

Quote:
“This happens on both sides of the aisle. The fact is that right now, the heat is on the Republicans. It’s on us,” he told Tapper. “And I said this at a meeting with the governors yesterday, that we asked for authority to change the country. We now have two-thirds of the statehouses in America, we have the House, we have the Senate and we have the White House.

"It’s now on us to produce results, and one of the things that we need to do is engage with the public.”
I'm glad someone is standing up to all the cowardice that seems to have infected the GOP since they inherited some actual responsibility in government.
02-27-2017 , 06:29 PM
These Iowans voted for Trump. Many of them are already disappointed.

Quote:
Of the six swing states that were key to Trump’s unexpected win in November, his margin of victory was the highest in Iowa, where he beat Clinton by 9 percentage points. Yet at the dawn of his presidency, only 42 percent of Iowans approve of the job that he’s doing and 49 percent disapprove, according to a Des Moines Register/Mediacom Iowa Poll this month.
LOL even Iowa is already against him!
02-27-2017 , 06:41 PM
In first amendment news, hot on the heels of Arizona introducing a bill to subject protesters to racketeering laws:

Quote:
The measure adds rioting to the organized crime statutes and says an overt act isn't needed to prove conspiracy to riot, meaning someone could be charged who wasn't involved in the actual riot.

...
Senate Bill 1142 would allow prosecutors to seize a person's assets in addition to enhanced criminal charges.
Hey, that's healthy. Now we have the Tucson police department shoving an 86 year old woman to the ground and pepper spraying a 65 year old woman who tries to help her.

2017, in which the right to protest is a partisan issue.
02-27-2017 , 06:51 PM
Even George W. Bush is worried about Trump's attacks on the press

This is, of course, very simple logic that Trump isn't understanding with the attacks he levies:

Quote:
Mr Bush said he had spent time in office trying to convince Russian President Vladimir Putin that he needed an independent media.

"It's kind of hard to tell others to have an independent, free press when we're not willing to have one ourselves," Mr Bush said.
Trump just wants to drag us down to Russia's level.
02-27-2017 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Your emotional meltdown here aside, there are simple facts available to us:
- tourism is already down in Trump's presidency
- the people who are coming here are being harassed at the border and are thus becoming more unlikely to return
- tourism is a huge industry in the United States and that's kinda bad for business
I think I can spin the US having a bad public image into a positive.

If you look at Pew's historic favorability %s among various countries, in 2003 it's:
France 42%
Germany 45%
UK 70%

UK ended up following USA into Iraq whereas France and Germany didn't join. The politicians of other countries will end up doing whatever their own people want since they have a duty to get reelected. If Trump's favorability in other countries is 15% and he wages some joke war then he will get no allies. Since he gets no allies then it reduces the odds of him waging that war in the first place. Or at least in theory as his stupidity might not know any bounds. Just bullying some other country pointlessly will lead the US into isolationism, see Russia.

Maybe a little too simplistic way to look at it, idk. Also not really a positive if you're into stuff like tanks, drones, oil and murder, or what is commonly known as a republican.

Edit: not seeing updated Pew numbers but let's not forget this G20 poll which circled during election time:
Spoiler:

Last edited by lenC; 02-27-2017 at 07:43 PM.
02-27-2017 , 09:02 PM
Conservatives = White Supremacists

02-27-2017 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
For pokerodox - remember how I said the Trump administration's attitude towards immigrants was going to result in them hiding out and avoiding engagement with the government?

Undocumented victims of domestic violence refuse to testify out of fear of deportation, after a woman was arrested and deported from a courthouse in El Paso where she sought a restraining order against her boyfriend.

This is healthy.
Thanks. The article says she has a criminal record, but doesn't mention what that record is. Presumably, if it was like the case where the woman's only crimes were illegal immigration and fraudulent identity use to get a job, then they would have told us that. (Biased media? But that's a side point.) So, we can assume her criminal past is a serious crime. Don't know how serious.

If it was murder, would you still feel we (the U.S. government) were doing wrong by catching her at her abuse hearing? I have mixed feelings on the subject. Part of me thinks an abuse hearing should be a sanctuary place. No chance of getting deported for availing oneself of such legal protection. But I'm not sure. For me, my feelings vary depending on how serious her crime was, so that shows some ambiguity/grayness in this for me personally.

My main view here is that all undocumented immigrants need to be documented. Sanctuary cities are absurd. They need to be documented. Some will be deported. Some will be allowed to stay, like on probation. It's a mess as it is now, and getting to a just situation will be trouble filled.
02-27-2017 , 09:16 PM
02-27-2017 , 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
"It doesn't affect me so I don't care" sums up your worldview in a nutshell quite nicely. You can continue to comment as an expert on how you feel about the world, but don't be offended when the rest of us ignore you because we're busy considering how things affect people other than you or us.



Anti-Muslim assaults reach 9/11-era levels, FBI data show. In the long trend of history racism may be falling, but in the short term hate is definitely the rise and it has a lot to do with our president. Those foreigners aren't wrong, you're wrong.
These stats occured before Trump was President. You don't suppose these stats are due to terrorist attacks here and abroad perpetrated by Muslims do you? All under the lacks governing of Obama. Is it possible that getting tougher on immigration will reduce the number of attacks here in the US and therefore give the anti Muslim crowd less to complain about? Is it possible hate crimes are up because of the hate created by BLM, leftist liberals, protest/rioters, the biased media etc etc? Maybe it's the never Trumpers getting under the racists skin.

you can't just blame Trump here: It takes two to tango.
02-27-2017 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
These stats occured before Trump was President. You don't suppose these stats are due to terrorist attacks here and abroad perpetrated by Muslims do you? All under the lacks governing of Obama. Is it possible that getting tougher on immigration will reduce the number of attacks here in the US and therefore give the anti Muslim crowd less to complain about? Is it possible hate crimes are up because of the hate created by BLM, leftist liberals, protest/rioters, the biased media etc etc? Maybe it's the never Trumpers getting under the racists skin.

you can't just blame Trump here: It takes two to tango.
Ah yes, civil rights activists are responsible for their own beatings and humiliations. They should've just kept quiet, right? This is an old line of propaganda that was very prevalent during the 1960s Civil Rights movement. You must think people are really, really stupid to fall for this **** in 2017.
02-27-2017 , 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey
No, you can't. What time period in US history was less racist today. Using almost any reasonable metric we have less racism today than any previous period. It isn't even debatable.

I have already asked this question 3-4 on 2+2 when someone posted something similar to what you just said and I have never gotten an answer.
Less racism before all this trump and alt right bs against muslims and immigrants. So like the era around 3 to 10 yrs ago .
02-27-2017 , 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerodox
Thanks. The article says she has a criminal record, but doesn't mention what that record is. Presumably, if it was like the case where the woman's only crimes were illegal immigration and fraudulent identity use to get a job, then they would have told us that. (Biased media? But that's a side point.) So, we can assume her criminal past is a serious crime. Don't know how serious.

If it was murder, would you still feel we (the U.S. government) were doing wrong by catching her at her abuse hearing? I have mixed feelings on the subject. Part of me thinks an abuse hearing should be a sanctuary place. No chance of getting deported for availing oneself of such legal protection. But I'm not sure. For me, my feelings vary depending on how serious her crime was, so that shows some ambiguity/grayness in this for me personally.

My main view here is that all undocumented immigrants need to be documented. Sanctuary cities are absurd. They need to be documented. Some will be deported. Some will be allowed to stay, like on probation. It's a mess as it is now, and getting to a just situation will be trouble filled.
Surely you can understand that the current policies greatly dissuade and disincentive them from seeking documentation
02-27-2017 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I hope pokerodox is still reading the thread, there's a lot more reporting on this subject today.

Advocates warn ‘dreamers’ to lie low as Trump ramps up deportation plans - in which undocumented immigrants are encouraged to no longer apply for the DACA program that would give them temporary work permits, because it may draw attention to their immigration status and get them deported.

‘It’s fear, fear, fear’: As enforcement increases, more immigrants avoid public places - in which the lede says it all:



Undocumented immigrants are now in fear for their safety and withdrawing from society. And that's exactly how Trump supporters want it.
Apparently these illegal immigrants aren't necessarily undocumented. Now for the bad news.

http://cis.org/IdentityTheft

I think there will be plenty to discuss after you all read this. I don't know how many of you have been victims of identity theft, but I do know you should understand the pain it causes its victims.
02-27-2017 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerodox
Thanks. The article says she has a criminal record, but doesn't mention what that record is. Presumably, if it was like the case where the woman's only crimes were illegal immigration and fraudulent identity use to get a job, then they would have told us that. (Biased media? But that's a side point.) So, we can assume her criminal past is a serious crime. Don't know how serious.

If it was murder, would you still feel we (the U.S. government) were doing wrong by catching her at her abuse hearing?
If she was convicted of a crime that serious, why would she be out on the street and not in jail? You said "catching" her as if there was a warrant out for her arrest when there's no evidence that was the case. You're letting your imagination run reeeeeal wild with this one.
02-27-2017 , 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
Apparently these illegal immigrants aren't necessarily undocumented. Now for the bad news.

http://cis.org/IdentityTheft

I think there will be plenty to discuss after you all read this. I don't know how many of you have been victims of identity theft, but I do know you should understand the pain it causes its victims.
Reading that should clue you in just how desperate they are, and literally have no other options to provide for their families.
02-27-2017 , 09:43 PM
Edit: This was in response to Victor.

I absolutely agree that massively increasing deportations, and catching people for deportation at every possible venue in which people must ID themselves, massively dissuades people from using those venues. Agreed.

What I'm asking is what is the cut-off for when that is ok? I read goofyballer's second article. Didn't have to read the first article, because it seems an obvious result to me.

So, the woman with a past criminal record is scooped up at a hearing in which she is seeking a protection order against her domestic abuser. Assuming you want criminal (not just identity fraud for seeking a job) illegal immigrants all deported, I'm asking you, what level of crime would the woman have to have for you to support catching her at her domestic abuse (of her, not by her) hearing?

Would you support catching her there if she was a murderer? Seven times a murderer? Drug crimes only? Grand theft, say significant check fraud? I'm just trying to think this through.

Last edited by pokerodox; 02-27-2017 at 09:45 PM. Reason: multiple posts crossing in the ether

      
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