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02-26-2017 , 02:33 PM
Guys, stop with the blatant dishonesty of using wil's own words against him. It is incredibly dishonest to quote his posts back at him.
02-26-2017 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
The truth is refugees are not the problem. Refugees and immigrants are LESS criminal and LESS violent than the natural born U.S. population, and that's a fact that we can back up any number of different ways.

Contrary to Trumpís Claims, Immigrants Are Less Likely to Commit Crimes
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/u...nts-crime.html
Ever heard of second generation terrorist syndrome? That's where the real problem is.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ost-fruitful-/
02-26-2017 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Ever heard of second generation terrorist syndrome? That's where the real problem is.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ost-fruitful-/
It always has been. I addressed this in a post earlier but the mods deleted it.
02-26-2017 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Ever heard of second generation terrorist syndrome? That's where the real problem is.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ost-fruitful-/
You have a handful of data points over several years here. This is anecdotal BS, and completely insignificant compared to the problem of right wing extremist violence in the U.S.

Face it: No matter how you do the numbers, they just don't add up. There is no big problem with Islamic terrorism in the United States. You're spending a whole lot of energy and time dedicating to something that has an infinitely tiny chance to ever effect your life.
02-26-2017 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
You have a handful of data points over several years here. This is anecdotal BS, and completely insignificant compared to the problem of right wing extremist violence in the U.S.

Face it: No matter how you do the numbers, they just don't add up. There is no big problem with Islamic terrorism in the United States. You're spending a whole lot of energy and time dedicating to something that has an infinitely tiny chance to ever effect your life.
At what number or % should we be concerned, einbert? I mean, people bring up abortion clinic murders or bombings from Christians many times when arguing against Islamic terrorism, using the "they do it, too!" argument. You know the numbers behind that, right? Like, 10 people in 40 years have been killed by those wackos, yet it's still a defense from your side.

So, what are acceptable figures?
02-26-2017 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
At what number or % should we be concerned, einbert? I mean, people bring up abortion clinic murders or bombings from Christians many times when arguing against Islamic terrorism, using the "they do it, too!" argument. You know the numbers behind that, right? Like, 10 people in 40 years have been killed by those wackos, yet it's still a defense from your side.

So, what are acceptable figures?
It's not acceptable to discriminate against Christians, even though some Christians are out there committing terrorism (a lot more than 10 people in 40 years btw). It's never acceptable to discriminate against Muslims either, even though there is a tiny tiny percent of people out there committing terrorism in the name of Islam.

168 people were killed and 680 others were injured in the Oklahoma City Bombing. There was massive property damage estimated at $652 million. And that's just a single incident in a single day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
02-26-2017 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
It's not acceptable to discriminate against Christians, even though some Christians are out there committing terrorism (a lot more than 10 people in 40 years btw). It's never acceptable to discriminate against Muslims either, even though there is a tiny tiny percent of people out there committing terrorism in the name of Islam.

168 people were killed and 680 others were injured in the Oklahoma City Bombing. There was massive property damage estimated at $652 million. And that's just a single incident in a single day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
Yeah, and? What was his main reason for doing the bombing? Also, the ratios between the two groups in terms of percentage of the population is skewed one way.

Are you saying the numbers don't matter at all?
02-26-2017 , 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Yeah, and? What was his main reason for doing the bombing? Also, the ratios between the two groups in terms of percentage of the population is skewed one way.

Are you saying the numbers don't matter at all?
His confession is all over the internet where he explains his reasoning, why don't you read it?

Do the numbers matter at all? Yes of course they matter because when you look at the numbers you can see that Muslim immigrants, refugees, and visitors to this country are far less of a threat than native born citizens. That matters because many propaganda channels such as Fox News are trying to lie to people like you and manipulate you into a politics of fear that they can then use to advance their 0.1% economic interests agenda. The facts matter.
02-26-2017 , 03:26 PM
wil stopped reading after "That matters because many propaganda channels".
02-26-2017 , 03:27 PM
02-26-2017 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
His confession is all over the internet where he explains his reasoning, why don't you read it?
That's not what I meant. Do you honestly think I've never read the reasons for his attack? I'm saying you are equating an Islamist terrorist attack with a Christian attack and talking about the Oklahoma bombing. They are not the same thing. That's why I brought up the Christian inspired attacks against the abortion clinics instead.

Quote:
Do the numbers matter at all? Yes of course they matter because when you look at the numbers you can see that Muslim immigrants, refugees, and visitors to this country are far less of a threat than native born citizens.

That matters because many propaganda channels such as Fox News are trying to lie to people like you and manipulate you into a politics of fear that they can then use to advance their 0.1% economic interests agenda. The facts matter.
This sounds like conspiracy-theory level thinking. There are very tiny minority of Muslims in this country, yet we see the issues in that community often. Do not disregard it as "nothing" because you are using numbers to make it look good. Again, we are not worried about the Amish bombing anyone.
02-26-2017 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
That's not what I meant. Do you honestly think I've never read the reasons for his attack? I'm saying you are equating an Islamist terrorist attack with a Christian attack and talking about the Oklahoma bombing. They are not the same thing. That's why I brought up the Christian inspired attacks against the abortion clinics instead.
Why don't you spell out the difference for us?

Quote:
This sounds like conspiracy-theory level thinking. There are very tiny minority of Muslims in this country, yet we see the issues in that community often. Do not disregard it as "nothing" because you are using numbers to make it look good. Again, we are not worried about the Amish bombing anyone.
You see it because it's sexy and the media puts a spotlight on it. I've already brought up terrorist events over the last few weeks/months that WEREN'T put under a spotlight by the media, because they were done by white dudes. Can you not see that you are directly arguing my point here? That's why we look at the numbers rather than these anecdotal ways of thinking.
02-26-2017 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
You see it because it's sexy and the media puts a spotlight on it. I've already brought up terrorist events over the last few weeks/months that WEREN'T put under a spotlight by the media, because they were done by white dudes. Can you not see that you are directly arguing my point here? That's why we look at the numbers rather than these anecdotal ways of thinking.
No, einbert. The violence is not the same and you know it. If I got into an argument with some guys and went home and got my gun and went back and shot two of them, that is essentially an ISOLATED incident. If I were to bomb a bus full of people I've never met before, that's a terrorist attack. The difference is astronomical. You can't compare the two at all. One is anger and violence against individuals, the other is an actual attack against a people.
02-26-2017 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
No, einbert. The violence is not the same and you know it. If I got into an argument with some guys and went home and got my gun and went back and shot two of them, that is essentially an ISOLATED incident. If I were to bomb a bus full of people I've never met before, that's a terrorist attack. The difference is astronomical. You can't compare the two at all. One is anger and violence against individuals, the other is an actual attack against a people.
Er, no that's not what terrorism is lol.

How can you be wrong about absolutely everything you post about?
02-26-2017 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
No, einbert. The violence is not the same and you know it. If I got into an argument with some guys and went home and got my gun and went back and shot two of them, that is essentially an ISOLATED incident. If I were to bomb a bus full of people I've never met before, that's a terrorist attack. The difference is astronomical. You can't compare the two at all. One is anger and violence against individuals, the other is an actual attack against a people.
Do you know anything about the Oklahoma City Bombing?
02-26-2017 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
That's not what I meant. Do you honestly think I've never read the reasons for his attack? I'm saying you are equating an Islamist terrorist attack with a Christian attack and talking about the Oklahoma bombing. They are not the same thing. That's why I brought up the Christian inspired attacks against the abortion clinics instead.



This sounds like conspiracy-theory level thinking. There are very tiny minority of Muslims in this country, yet we see the issues in that community often. Do not disregard it as "nothing" because you are using numbers to make it look good. Again, we are not worried about the Amish bombing anyone.
Here you go Will. This is troubling!

https://therionorteline.com/2012/02/...ish-terrorism/
02-26-2017 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalfrezi
Er, no that's not what terrorism is lol.

How can you be wrong about absolutely everything you post about?
I'm using a very general description here, I'm not trying to define it or try to come up with a political or religious reason for it.
02-26-2017 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Do you know anything about the Oklahoma City Bombing?
Yes, I watched it happen, actually. McVeigh was an anti-government right wing nut, if I remember correctly. I remember reading his letters, too, but that was many years ago
02-26-2017 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
I'm using a very general description here, I'm not trying to define it or try to come up with a political or religious reason for it.
Dude, using violence directly against certain minorities as terrorism has a long and storied history in the United States. And these weren't always planned attacks. Lynchings were often spontaneous events, although there was usually a picnic involved just because people were way more organized back then.
02-26-2017 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig
Here you go Will. This is troubling!

https://therionorteline.com/2012/02/...ish-terrorism/
I was up there a few months ago, buying fresh corn and squash in an open market. Even bought some apple pies. I'll think twice from now on.
02-26-2017 , 03:56 PM
The prejudice about Muslims leads to discrimination about violence. Muslims are huge targets of terrorism violence and are blamed lop-lopsidedly for violence in general. That's where getting scared because 'trump says so' gets ya. Prejudiced and full of discrimination- can't even identify violence accurately. Gotta make courageous choices to stop, turn the prejudices around, and get it done.
02-26-2017 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Dude, using violence directly against certain minorities as terrorism has a long and storied history in the United States. And these weren't always planned attacks. Lynchings were often spontaneous events, although there was usually a picnic involved just because people were way more organized back then.
And? Violence has been going down for how many decades, now? Do you think minorities are scared to death to walk in the streets?

While you say I paint one picture, it seems you like to do something similar on the other side.
02-26-2017 , 03:58 PM
You guys are sitting here mocking the idea that someone would be scared of a member of the Amish religion. But you are terrified of members of the religion of Islam who are mostly peaceful working people just like the Amish. Do you not have the slightest bit of self-awareness about you.
02-26-2017 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
You guys are sitting here mocking the idea that someone would be scared of a member of the Amish religion. But you are terrified of members of the religion of Islam who are mostly peaceful working people just like the Amish. Do you not have the slightest bit of self-awareness about you.
And you carelessly label others as being bigoted against Muslims as people. Of course we treat them as people who are absolutely fine as individuals. That doesn't mean we don't have issues to deal with in that group.
02-26-2017 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
And you carelessly label others as being bigoted against Muslims as people. Of course we treat them as people who are absolutely fine as individuals. That doesn't mean we don't have issues to deal with in that group.
Numbers, they don't add up. Demagoguery of the right and the fear of being a "conservative" (white supremacist) don't add up to living in reality.


      
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