Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
President Trump President Trump

02-17-2017 , 12:58 AM
You're wrong.

You could, perhaps, argue that the articles reporting this are sourced anonymously and we don't know the full story from sources that won't go on the record. But saying "check your facts" or "fake news" is just displaying a total disregard for reality.
02-17-2017 , 01:23 AM


Nothing to see here, just a Fox News reporter saying that Flynn lied in earlier statements
02-17-2017 , 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerowo
Remember that pesky popular vote? That's where you know if you have a mandate.
Too bad she lost!
02-17-2017 , 02:04 AM
To the people who think wil is selfish, please note he just made an altruistic attempt towards having Shooshy not look like the most ridiculous poster here.
02-17-2017 , 02:13 AM
I love how it's just a ****ing given that it's unseemly and downright blasphemous to think of anybody making LESS in order to fund a minimum wage increase.

And it's not that anybody disagrees, rather that 1 side hears about this inhumanity and is horrified whilst the other side starts softly masturbating.
02-17-2017 , 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerodox
Hmmm, no thought for the absolute number of previously working poor who this forces into unemployment?

Here's an effort to get to the accurate numbers. My guestimate was for a move to $15/hr.

The CBO material Adios cited says that with a move to $10.10/hr, the expected job loss is 500k jobs, with "very little job loss" to 1M jobs lost as the 2/3rds confidence interval.

The same material says there would be only 100k expected jobs lost for a move to $9.00/hr.

So, according to the CBO in 2014, the move difference between $9.00/hr min and $10.10/hr min created a change from 100k expected jobs lost to 500k expected jobs lost. Five times.

Is that an exponential growth rate?

I tried and couldn't find a nationwide estimate for a move to $15/hr, though I did find that 42% of workers make less than $15. That's more than I expected. I found 124M full time workers and 28M part time, here https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm That's 152M. My 300/1000 = 30% speculation would mean 45M people would lose there jobs. My estimate might be too high. Sorry if that seems arrogant. But how much too high? We don't know.

I found that there were 20M people making less than $10.10 per hour, so the CBO's estimate of 500k job losses was 2.5% of those making less than $10.10/hr, compared to my estimate of 30% for a move to $15/hr.

Let's say we take the top of the (merely) 2/3rds confidence interval by the CBO of 1M job losses instead of the 500k expected value. That's now 5% of those in the range losing their jobs. Switch that to an 85% confidence interval, do we get 10% of those in the range thrown out of work?

I speculated that 30% lose there jobs at a $15/hr jump. Maybe that's high, but just based on the CBO number of 5X increase when going from a $9/hr min to a $10.10/hr min, should we get a 5X increase when going from a 10.10/hr min to a 15/hr min?

Edit: Sorry, I did some math wrong above. The total job loss I predicted is 152M*.42*.30 = 19M, not 45M.

Also, I found a Forbes article saying 6.6M jobs would be lost.
Min wage is more complicated than can be dealt with in this thread but the the CBO article neglects the pretty obvious fact that people who're edged out of the legal labor markets don't just float in limbo. The employment statistics don't take into account the people who would inevitably substitute their legal job for some kind of an under the table situation. It's just not something you can measure but I think anyone who's dealt with small business owners understands how often things are done off the books.
02-17-2017 , 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb
Pence would be a different kind of awful, but awful nonetheless, and surrounded by most or all of the same awful people.
So your answer is either you don't care or no. Which one? Seems like it would be you don't care. Sincerely, thanks for stepping up and answering.
02-17-2017 , 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Do you want TRUMP to resign?
02-17-2017 , 07:20 AM
Watched the full 77 minutes.

Thought he was basically in the right. Talked a lot of sense.
02-17-2017 , 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba
Min wage is more complicated than can be dealt with in this thread but the the CBO article neglects the pretty obvious fact that people who're edged out of the legal labor markets don't just float in limbo. The employment statistics don't take into account the people who would inevitably substitute their legal job for some kind of an under the table situation. It's just not something you can measure but I think anyone who's dealt with small business owners understands how often things are done off the books.
On the CBO, they model what they are tasked to model. Congress gives them their tasks. People that lose their jobs are of course going to look for ways to make up for lost income. So my take on this post is that you are fine with moving more people to working in the "underground economy" because they won't endure that much hardship?
02-17-2017 , 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
If TRUMP resigns would you be happy?
Yes.
02-17-2017 , 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I think you are conflating the idea that information is being withheld from the President simply due to who he is. Intelligence agencies have often withheld certain information in an attempt to protect it's source or method of gathering. Top officials in the intelligence community have denied that information is specifically being withheld from Trump.

I have read that the only thing Flynn did was try to keep the Russians from retaliating against Obamas sanctions. He didn't promise to eliminate the sanctions or reduce them.This seems like a good thing to me.

Trump has definately put himself in this situation by running his mouth about the intelligence community. They have a history of being vindictive. This infirmation about Flynn should never have been leaked.
02-17-2017 , 10:20 AM
I'd like people to admit that at least on the fake news score, Trump is correct and the treatment has not been fair.
02-17-2017 , 10:38 AM
Being a 'trump troll' is easy peasy. Either mimic him or act like he is reasonable.

So, there is no such thing as least or most racist. Either you stopped being racist, never were exposed to the influence of racism, or are a racist.

Thanks 45, you admitted it.
02-17-2017 , 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
I'd like people to admit that at least on the fake news score, Trump is correct and the treatment has not been fair.
His treatment has been fine. he actually cited Fox and Friends--a dopey morning program that hated Obama for years--as an ideal news source.

Hard hitting news:
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-an...salute-marines
02-17-2017 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ball
Yes.
Interesting, why do you prefer Pence to TRUMP? Thanks in advance btw for stepping up.

Goofyballer has yet to weigh in.
02-17-2017 , 11:22 AM
I don't necessarily prefer him on the issues--his views are arguably worse than Trump's on some things. I doubt Pence screws up foreign policy and alliances the way Trump might.

But a Trump resignation is a stinging defeat for Trumpism-the callous authoritarian ignorance that has driven the Republicans further rightward. It certainly helps to weaken Republicans in general, which is good from my point of view.
02-17-2017 , 12:03 PM
Pence is an old fashioned conservative, horrible views on most everything liberals care about, but he's not bat **** crazy. When Trump is gone hopefully Pence will reset to a functioning cabinet and we'll have a working government.
02-17-2017 , 12:33 PM
I like that idea 13ball & kerowo. Has their every been a president that served 8 years and before that served 8 years as VP?
02-17-2017 , 12:37 PM
The liberals ITT got buried in the minimum wage conversation. The conservatives ITT aren't even willing to give them a small victory by letting them win an internet argument.

"We are gonna win, win, win. We're going to win with military, we're going to win at the borders, we're going to win with trade, we're going to win at everything. And some of you are friends and you're going to call, and you're going to say, 'Mr. President, please, we can't take it anymore, we can't win anymore like this, Mr. President, you're driving us crazy, you're winning too much, please Mr. President, not so much, and I'm going to say I'm sorry, we're going to keep winning because we are going to make America great again."

-GOAT
02-17-2017 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
Do you want TRUMP to resign?
Yes. Pence sucks but unlike Trump would not operate outside the norms of our democracy.
02-17-2017 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
Interesting, why do you prefer Pence to TRUMP? Thanks in advance btw for stepping up.

Goofyballer has yet to weigh in.
My feeling (and it is a feeling) is that while they are both about equal on deliberately doing stuff that I hate, trump is far more likely to cause a disaster by accident.

Plus as 13ball points out, a defeat for trumpism is really good in itself.
02-17-2017 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
Watched the full 77 minutes.

Thought he was basically in the right. Talked a lot of sense.
Of course you would think so
02-17-2017 , 01:40 PM
Shepherd Smith gives zero ****s. So legit
02-17-2017 , 02:11 PM
I wonder what he'd say if asked "least anti-Semitic compared to what or who?"

      
m