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08-01-2017 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
and stop wasting our time.
No.
08-01-2017 , 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
It's obvious to me I understand the problem much better than you do. I openly admit I don't know any of the details or economics behind it. That doesn't matter. What matters is philosophical in nature.

We pay a lot and we have the best health care system in the world. It is not available to everyone at all times. It's unfair and unequal. Where we differ is what we believe we should do about it. You want everyone to have everyrhjng. I don't.
Cool. Still want uhc. Maybe we can run it like our super efficient military no one has an issue with spending gobs of money on. We can even tax the crap out of the one percent. Everyone wins!!

Last edited by batair; 08-01-2017 at 08:51 PM.
08-01-2017 , 08:47 PM
Found on social media.
Quote:
"I'm seeing lots of posts and comments attacking single-payer health care because 'taxes will inevitably have to increase to pay for it, and we're already paying too much.'

This sounds correct, but is actually totally wrong regarding the point it's trying to make.

Yes, we are paying too much for healthcare. Yes, taxes will increase under single-payer. But if your taxes increase by, say, $300 a month at the same time that you ELIMINATE the $1,200 a month you're currently paying a for-profit insurance company to insure your family, are you willing to give up that 'taxes are evil' mentality to pocket $900 a month?

Think about it - take all the time you need.

'Oh, but then the government will control health care,' I hear you say.

As a physician, I can tell you that I don't feel much in control of my patients' care when a giant corporate entity is countermanding my decisions to protect their profits, or when a patient refuses care because they can't afford it.

Those problems vanish under single-payer."

--Richard Schloss, Physician
08-01-2017 , 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Cool. Still want uhc. Maybe we can run it like our super efficient military no one has an issue with spending gobs of money on.
Well I want freedom and the best healthcare system in the world - which I've got.

If you want UHC, there a sooooo many countries that have it. If that's your criteria - you're welcome to it.

You realize the reason we spend so much money on our military is because it is inefficient. We make up for that inefficiency with money. While we also protect the rest of the free world, who can afford UHC for their citizens because they don't have to pay for the military that protects them.

Of course the VA is UHC for vets - and it sucks. That's what you get with government run healthcare.

As a reminder, a government's purpose and first duty is the common defense of the Nation. Everything else is secondary.
08-01-2017 , 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Both of you are oversimplifying the argument. The simple majority may want UHC but at what cost are they willing to do it? The idea is great. The details, not so much.

I want UHC but I don't want to pay a lot for it.

It's no where are easy as you make it out to be. And to be honest I don't think we will ever have single payer in this country. The costs come from somewhere. Someone has to pay, and there's enough people who don't want it to be burdened by everyone.

That's just the reality. Again, I don't see why you people can't see this. The political will is not there. If it was, it would be a done deal already. We know how the ACA passed - Obama said it himself that's the best they could get.

We will not have single payer in the foreseeable future. Period.

If you crushed regulation by the AMA that's restricted the supply of doctors greatly inflating the price, costs would go down pretty dramatically.

I have a hard time justifying why poor people should suffer the consequences of legislative failures that've greatly benefited high income earners.

... not that it'll matter much longer. It's only a matter of time before everything is done remotely and medical professionals see their wages plummet like everyone else.
08-01-2017 , 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Cool. Still want uhc. Maybe we can run it like our super efficient military no one has an issue with spending gobs of money on. We can even tax the crap out of the one percent. Everyone wins!!
Maybe they should skip Congress and just let you put the entire package together. I'm sure it would work out great.

You have no answers and no real knowledge of how to address this. You simply want UHC. That's not a plan, that's a wish. That is how children think, not adults.
08-01-2017 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
I don't.
We want better, you make excuses.
08-01-2017 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba
If you crushed regulation by the AMA that's restricted the supply of doctors greatly inflating the price, costs would go down pretty dramatically.

I have a hard time justifying why poor people should suffer the consequences of legislative failures that've greatly benefited high income earners.

... not that it'll matter much longer. It's only a matter of time before everything is done remotely and medical professionals see their wages plummet like everyone else.
Technology will certainly be a part of getting us to improve our quality of lives, including medical care. The other point is - with an economic recovery, people should hopefully be able to find jobs where they can purchase healthcare.

Obamacare was such a disaster - I hope they let it implode so we can come up with something much, much better.
08-01-2017 , 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Maybe they should skip Congress and just let you put the entire package together. I'm sure it would work out great.

You have no answers and no real knowledge of how to address this. You simply want UHC. That's not a plan, that's a wish. That's how children think.
You sound emotional, are feelings your reason for blocking UHC?
08-01-2017 , 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie
We want better, you make excuses.
Who really is the one who sounds emotional? All of your arguments come from emotion. It's really stupid.

Look at things logically instead of emotionally. Things come at a cost. Healthcare costs something. I don't just wish for things, I know it takes work to accomplish it.

It is very annoying to go through these exercises. Statements like "we want better" don't mean a thing. What does that mean? I want better, too. I want a better life, a nicer car, a nicer house, more money, and better vacations. I live in reality and know that I either can go out and make that happen or just sit here and keep wishing.

Your ideas are complete nonsense. We already have the best healthcare system, that's not up for debate. You just want everyone to access it at all times. That's as idiotic as saying every college student should go to Harvard for free.

It's absurdity at the highest level. It's beyond absurd, "it's not even wrong."
08-01-2017 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggyMac
Technology will certainly be a part of getting us to improve our quality of lives, including medical care. The other point is - with an economic recovery, people should hopefully be able to find jobs where they can purchase healthcare.
Well, I guess they'll at least need one secretary and security guard.

Quote:
Obamacare was such a disaster - I hope they let it implode so we can come up with something much, much better.
Lowering costs has almost nothing to do with the way the burden is spread out.

You can just relax accreditation requirements for foreign trained doctors to come here and work for the socialized healthcare services and costs would plummet. And so would the wages of medical workers... which is why the lobbies representing them are willing to throw all their weight against that happening.
08-01-2017 , 09:20 PM
Leftists don't deserve health care because they don't even know how to perform a simple appendectomy. They should be ashamed for wanting it. The best thing for health care in the US is to elect a so-called president that campaigns on free health care for all while secretly plotting to destroy existing health care to satisfy his blood-feud fetish with a past president that owned him at a White House correspondent's dinner.

Last edited by Max Cut; 08-01-2017 at 09:26 PM.
08-01-2017 , 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Who really is the one who sounds emotional? All of your arguments come from emotion. It's really stupid.



Look at things logically instead of emotionally. Things come at a cost. Healthcare costs something. I don't just wish for things, I know it takes work to accomplish it.



It is very annoying to go through these exercises. Statements like "we want better" don't mean a thing. What does that mean? I want better, too. I want a better life, a nicer car, a nicer house, more money, and better vacations. I live in reality and know that I either can go out and make that happen or just sit here and keep wishing.



Your ideas are complete nonsense. We already have the best healthcare system, that's not up for debate. You just want everyone to access it at all times. That's as idiotic as saying every college student should go to Harvard for free.



It's absurdity at the highest level. It's beyond absurd, "it's not even wrong."


Woah, watch out for flailing and spew.
08-01-2017 , 10:04 PM
You people are insane as ****.
08-01-2017 , 10:43 PM
Wil and jiggy are cool with mandating that hospitals and physicians provide care, they just don't want them to be paid for it in certain cases. But hey, freedom!
08-01-2017 , 11:28 PM
Curious, I heard/believe I read that UHC has been voted down in both Colorado and California. Were those proposals just bad or what is the reason it wasn't passed in California of all places?
08-01-2017 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonh
Wil and jiggy are cool with mandating that hospitals and physicians provide care, they just don't want them to be paid for it in certain cases. But hey, freedom!
I'd rather have the best and it be expensive and a whole bunch of crap on the cheap.
08-01-2017 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggyMac
Well I want freedom and the best healthcare system in the world - which I've got.

If you want UHC, there a sooooo many countries that have it. If that's your criteria - you're welcome to it.
Nah i think i will stay and vote for people who come closest to my views. If you dont like that there are places where that is not allowed.
Quote:
You realize the reason we spend so much money on our military is because it is inefficient.
Sure. Well we would still spend a lot and more then anyone even if we were efficient id guess.

Quote:
We make up for that inefficiency with money. While we also protect the rest of the free world, who can afford UHC for their citizens because they don't have to pay for the military that protects them.

Of course the VA is UHC for vets - and it sucks. That's what you get with government run healthcare.

As a reminder, a government's purpose and first duty is the common defense of the Nation. Everything else is secondary.
Im ok with making good healthcare for all happen by spending inefficiently like we do with the military. Be better if we hired some top notch efficiency experts to trim both though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Maybe they should skip Congress and just let you put the entire package together. I'm sure it would work out great.

You have no answers and no real knowledge of how to address this. You simply want UHC. That's not a plan, that's a wish. That is how children think, not adults.
The you are no expert is a childish dumb argument. There are experts and idiots like you and me on both sides of the issue.
08-01-2017 , 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
The you are no expert is a childish dumb argument. There are experts and idiots like you and me on both sides of the issue.
Your side just reminds me of the college students who want free college tuition.

These things just aren't based in reality. It's easy to say let's have universal healthcare. It makes you feel good to say it and to support it. If it cost us nothing and we wouldn't lose any of the quality, then hell yeah I'd support it 1000%! Why wouldn't I?

But I look at it in a practical sense. On one hand, we have the best system and I don't want to lose that. I don't want to be the French, or the Canadians. **** that. On the other hand a lot of people here are getting screwed when it comes to the costs and access. I'm fully capable of seeing the problem and I think we should try to make it better, I'm just not willing to go nearly as far as you and the rest of the leftists idiots here are. You have no idea how to make it good, affordable, and sustainable. None. So don't tell me what you want the end result to be when you have no idea how to get there.

There's a reason why we get the best and brightest across the world when it comes to education and medicine. I'd be horrified if your people ****ed it all up with your idiotic views. I don't envy the Europeans and their health care systems or their educational systems. If I wanted to, I'D MOVE TO ****ING EUROPE.
08-01-2017 , 11:58 PM
If you dont like the freedom to redress your government in any damn way you want. Maybe its you who should move.
08-02-2017 , 12:02 AM
Never know, maybe I will! I wouldn't mind retiring abroad for a few years.
08-02-2017 , 12:10 AM
Idk if id risk it. The older you get the more health problems and you might just have to rely on one of those free commie healthcare systems.
08-02-2017 , 12:12 AM
I have a greek-godlike physique. Statuesque even.
08-02-2017 , 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
I have a greek-godlike physique. Statuesque even.
Put it in a chain email and maybe adios would believe this one.
08-02-2017 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Your side just reminds me of the college students who want free college tuition.



These things just aren't based in reality. It's easy to say let's have universal healthcare. It makes you feel good to say it and to support it. If it cost us nothing and we wouldn't lose any of the quality, then hell yeah I'd support it 1000%! Why wouldn't I?



But I look at it in a practical sense. On one hand, we have the best system and I don't want to lose that. I don't want to be the French, or the Canadians. **** that. On the other hand a lot of people here are getting screwed when it comes to the costs and access. I'm fully capable of seeing the problem and I think we should try to make it better, I'm just not willing to go nearly as far as you and the rest of the leftists idiots here are. You have no idea how to make it good, affordable, and sustainable. None. So don't tell me what you want the end result to be when you have no idea how to get there.



There's a reason why we get the best and brightest across the world when it comes to education and medicine. I'd be horrified if your people ****ed it all up with your idiotic views. I don't envy the Europeans and their health care systems or their educational systems. If I wanted to, I'D MOVE TO ****ING EUROPE.


What an unteachable and repetitive, emotional [emoji90].

      
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