Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Politics version 7.0 more politics.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-16-2017, 02:29 PM   #9426
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Cut View Post
Good, so we are in agreement then that you are a propagandist focused on contributing to the weakening of American democracy, a spreader of fear and hate, a supporter of fascism, and, arguably worst of all, your humor is not funny -- it's like painful and embarrassing to watch you trying to be funny.
All of this is disingenous. Please give specific examples of how Trump has

1. Spread fear and hate
2. Supported fascism

The propaganda thing is a huge laugh. Besides Fox, the entirety of American propaganda (media) has been squarely against Trump since day 1. Also, America isn't a democracy. It's a republic of laws.
DoOrDoNot is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:32 PM   #9427
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Googling it I find that this "Hitler was a socialist" thing was not invented by idiots in this thread, but is an idiotic thing on idiotic sites for idiots like Infowars.

Of course it's all idiotic crap. The Reichstag Fire was framing the communists. Hitler attacked all the unions, closed them, tortured, killed, and sent labor leaders to concentration camps.

http://www.peoplesworld.org/article/...estroy-unions/
You should actually read some history before you post in these forums, because posting one article every now and then is lol for most of us. Is that how you get the entirety of your information?

National Socialist German Workers Party

Read it again until it sinks in, and then keep digging until you find out what the word socialist means and why Hitler joined a party with that in the name.
DoOrDoNot is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:35 PM   #9428
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Hitler apologists aren't generally tolerated around here.

You should take your "it wasn't really Hitler's fault" takes back to Stormfront.
I don't think he was really saying that and your post is pretty unfair. History is a complex thing, and it's a fact that some American big business was behind Hitler, including Prescott Bush etc.
DoOrDoNot is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:39 PM   #9429
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post
Sounds a lot like fat hitler. Pays lip service to the mouthbreathing cheerleaders for capitalism, then pushes for all sorts of tariffs to prop up failing industries. That's definitely one way for the government to control the economy.
Ya at the time though tarriffs and industry protection were the status quo for every country, including the United States. Those industries you speak of aren't failing, they're just failing in the United States because it's too expensive to do business there.

If you think the leader of the US, wanting to make businesses do better in the US, makes that leader Hitler then I really don't know what to say. Isn't that what leaders of countries are supposed to do?
DoOrDoNot is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:41 PM   #9430
jalfrezi
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
jalfrezi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Long gone, long long gone
Posts: 9,839
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
You should actually read some history before you post in these forums, because posting one article every now and then is lol for most of us. Is that how you get the entirety of your information?

National Socialist German Workers Party

Read it again until it sinks in, and then keep digging until you find out what the word socialist means and why Hitler joined a party with that in the name.
Maybe take some time out from posting pictures of homeless black people who you assume are criminals (why would you assume that?), to do a cursory amount of reading yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German Workers Party

Quote:
Further in an attempt to make the party more broadly appealing to larger segments of the population, the DAP [German Workers' Party] was renamed [by Hitler to] the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP).

Last edited by jalfrezi; 07-16-2017 at 02:46 PM.
jalfrezi is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:41 PM   #9431
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Fox News on Seattle: "socialist hellhole"

Good job commies!
sylar is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:41 PM   #9432
BitchiBee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 24,622
Re: President Trump

Quote:
If you think the leader of the US, wanting to make businesses do better in the US, makes that leader Hitler then I really don't know what to say. Isn't that what leaders of countries are supposed to do?
comparing hitler to the thing you argue against just the way you show you lost the argument

corollary of godwins law
BitchiBee is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:48 PM   #9433
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
Re: President Trump

No one compared him to Hitler. They said he was an authoritarian.

Whoops fat Hitler made it in there.
batair is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:50 PM   #9434
goofyballer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
goofyballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 70,901
Re: President Trump

Godwin's law only applies to liberals, everyone knows that
goofyballer is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:58 PM   #9435
spanktehbadwookie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
spanktehbadwookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: River Region
Posts: 19,376
Re: President Trump




Regime of lackadaisical scapegoating.
spanktehbadwookie is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:38 PM   #9436
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalfrezi View Post
Maybe take some time out from posting pictures of homeless black people who you assume are criminals (why would you assume that?), to do a cursory amount of reading yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German Workers Party
Here's a good article from Mises institute that goes a little beyond the general information of Wikipedia which will probably be thrown out without being read because Austrian economists are evil racist Hitler worshippers but nonetheless

https://mises.org/library/why-nazism...m-totalitarian
DoOrDoNot is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:43 PM   #9437
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
No one compared him to Hitler. They said he was an authoritarian.

Whoops fat Hitler made it in there.
And what makes him authoritarian? His strong language? What evidence do you actually have of this?

Just the fact he's going through the courts and Congress to get his bills passed makes your claim nonsense.
DoOrDoNot is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:48 PM   #9438
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
Re: President Trump

Im not into convincing you. Maybe someone else will take up your offer.
batair is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:55 PM   #9439
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named View Post
I mean, I think there's a point to the accusation that Clinton has never seemed to really grasp what it's like not to be rich. I remember some interview with her where she was complaining about being poor after Bill left the whitehouse, wherein poor meant having accumulated 7 figures in debt and needing a bit of time to pay it off from Bill's speaking fees. And it's just like, yeah that's not what it's like to be poor. The sense of entitlement and cluelessness in that interview was palpable.

Now of course I would greatly prefer Clinton as president to Trump, for a whole variety of reasons, but I'm pretty sympathetic to accusations that the Democratic party establishment is also captured in its own way by wealthy interests, and that it's a problem that so many politicians from both parties come from such privileged backgrounds.
JFC, both clintons grew up as middle class at best, and got ahead solely due to their own education. to knock them for paying off debt while one of them was trying to stay in politics and the other just left politics after spending most savings on legal defense since at least the late 80's. for crying out loud, clinton spoke at my convocation in 2001, and was probably paid the same amount as janet reno and christopher reeves. whoopty freaking doo, what a privileged *****. talk to me when you are on foodstamps amirite?

to continue to throw shade for speaking fees is a form of whattaboutism. accusations about the dnc are pretty much always what the right are already doing, including the nomination and election of the most corrupt priveleged anti intellectual pro war baby as president who may have also accepted help from a hostile dictator. its not hard to remember this exact trump campaign language, which is now revealed about the trump administration itself.

they are trying to run out the news cycle clock because they are better at yelling louder, but it's not difficult to see how fake news is probably a highly automated greater narrative algorithm, repackaging stories with new names and details and self references, even able to grab as new input stuff like crazy ramblings of a foxnews viewing idiot off twitter/Reddit/message board. as much as I'd like to believe we are dealing with humans, most of the time we are arguing with bad Eliza implementations. Yes it's infuriating to you and doesn't make you like the gop any more, but they've actually succeeded in getting you to repeat a lie about the dnc establishment to yourself over and over.
sylar is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:04 PM   #9440
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Unhappy Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
Im not into convincing you. Maybe someone else will take up your offer.
I think most likely you don't see beyond your own nose and use words like fascism and authoritarian as trigger words rather than actually analyzing things to find the truth. It's a rather careless and lazy way to use your brain.
DoOrDoNot is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:07 PM   #9441
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named View Post
Fair enough. I am probably guilty of concluding too much from one interview that I didn't like.

I am of the opinion though that it would be good for the political process in the US to represent a wider swath of Americans by economic background, regardless of how well rich politicians believe they are able to empathize. I realize that this is a difficult problem though, given the role of money in elections, and the correlations between social class and education.
The sentiment is idealistic but let's think rationally. A representative of a group may not be the best person to be the best advocate or legislator for that group. And to represent the downtrotten with one of their own, you are kinda limited to choosing someone who didn't have enough resources to get out of the poverty cycle, which is nearly impossible by the way. I think it's more appropriate to choose and vote for champions for your group wherever you find them, rather than e.g. calling someone too rich to be talking about income inequality.
sylar is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:08 PM   #9442
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 54,424
Re: President Trump

sylar,

Hillary's childhood is better described as "middle class at worst" than as best, but she didn't grow up rich. I think upper middle class is the right description. Bill grew up poor(ish).

When the person who repealed Glass-Steagall got over $100 million in speaking fees, I think it's worth a little shade.
microbet is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:12 PM   #9443
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
I think most likely you don't see beyond your own nose and use words like fascism and authoritarian as trigger words rather than actually analyzing things to find the truth. It's a rather careless and lazy way to use your brain.
I think i never called him either. Cite?

Kind of lazy strawman you are cooking up there.
batair is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:30 PM   #9444
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
sylar,

Hillary's childhood is better described as "middle class at worst" than as best, but she didn't grow up rich. I think upper middle class is the right description. Bill grew up poor(ish).

When the person who repealed Glass-Steagall got over $100 million in speaking fees, I think it's worth a little shade.
I know we probably disagree on a lot of financial issues. I don't think the repeal was good, but it was mostly consensus at the time. Bill didn't all of a sudden make a giant mistake all by himself. Who knows, maybe the actual downfall of a republic is when glass-steagal is repealed together with citizens united, and it would have been manageable without republicans continuing to be dicks after the nineties. Regardless the democrats realized some of their mistakes and are now trying to rectify it. That's probably as close an ally as I can name.
sylar is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:49 PM   #9445
spanktehbadwookie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
spanktehbadwookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: River Region
Posts: 19,376
Re: President Trump

Do Not take someone else's word about fascism and authoritarianism, see and decide for yourself using resources such as...


https://public.tableau.com/profile/a...skindDashboard
spanktehbadwookie is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:02 PM   #9446
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
Re: President Trump

Id say he is more of an kleptocrat.
batair is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:16 PM   #9447
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 54,424
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar View Post
I know we probably disagree on a lot of financial issues. I don't think the repeal was good, but it was mostly consensus at the time. Bill didn't all of a sudden make a giant mistake all by himself. Who knows, maybe the actual downfall of a republic is when glass-steagal is repealed together with citizens united, and it would have been manageable without republicans continuing to be dicks after the nineties. Regardless the democrats realized some of their mistakes and are now trying to rectify it. That's probably as close an ally as I can name.
I'm probably not as extreme as I seem. If you don't think the repeal was good I'm not sure we're so far apart other than I may have less tolerance for a bunch of back-slapping lawyers and MBAs in their suits all agreeing that things that will make them rich are also saving the world.
microbet is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:39 PM   #9448
Max Cut
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
Id say he is more of an kleptocrat.
I agree, but give him a chance.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 08:21 PM   #9449
Abbaddabba
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,770
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
Ya at the time though tarriffs and industry protection were the status quo for every country, including the United States. Those industries you speak of aren't failing, they're just failing in the United States because it's too expensive to do business there.
Yes, the labor is too expensive. For the same reason that companies don't open up plants to manufacture textiles in the middle of Manhattan. Do you want to segregate states and cities too to inflate the wages for people in the wealthier regions?

Quote:
If you think the leader of the US, wanting to make businesses do better in the US, makes that leader Hitler then I really don't know what to say. Isn't that what leaders of countries are supposed to do?
No, that's what leaders of centrally planned economies do.
Abbaddabba is offline  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:50 PM   #9450
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba View Post
Yes, the labor is too expensive. For the same reason that companies don't open up plants to manufacture textiles in the middle of Manhattan. Do you want to segregate states and cities too to inflate the wages for people in the wealthier regions?
The industry leave the country period. Giant corporations who pay Philippine workers 12 cents an hour can make more money. The rich get richer and the middle class shrinks because corrupt politicians want power and these giant lobbyists pay for their electoral victories. Conservatives and Liberals both agree this is a problem. The difference is conservatives want those jobs back for Americans and Liberals want minimum wage laws cause somehow people wanting to work for a living is racist.

Quote:
No, that's what leaders of centrally planned economies do.
This is facile. Are central banks interest rate controls 'central planning?' Is incentivizing businesses to not offshore cemtral planning? Are minimum wage laws not central planning? I'm all about the free market but there has to be some regulation or you have great depressions and child labor.
DoOrDoNot is offline  

 
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive