Ignorant response

I don't think everyone agrees with such a strong statement of meritocracy, but I've heard it enough times in my life to disagree that it's a strawman. There's also plenty of survey research on American attitudes about meritocracy. I may be guilty of exaggerating the strength of some people's beliefs.

I support government regulation which attempts to rein in the tendency of a capitalistic economy (especially now, with the growth of technology) to concentrate wealth and political power in the hands of a very few people.

I think that saying "it's not up to the government" is basically expressing some kind of axiomatic moral principle. But it's not an axiom or a moral judgement I accept. I think a society which limits relative inequality (and which seeks to reduce poverty) is preferable to one that doesn't. I'm not a principled moral utilitarian but I do think the basic idea of the diminishing marginal utility of money suggests a utilitarian argument in favor of redistribution as well.

I also think, to wil's question about paying for someone else's healthcare, that it's actually in the best interest of most wealthier people to accept some reasonable burden of taxation intended to fund social programs for the poor. It's in their best interest in that it helps maintain the stability and productivity of society, which is a precondition to the existence of much of that wealth in the first place.

In practice, all of these basic moral or philosophical principles are subject to pragmatic constraints. That's why I agreed with OrP's point about minimum wage laws, for example. If mimimum wage laws don't accomplish their goals, then it makes sense to pursue other policies. Policy choices are guided by foundational principles, but should be empirically determined. My foundational principles are closely related to my basic moral worldview, which I accept is not some objectively correct fact about the world.

"When the windows of perception are cleansed we see things as they are"

I suggest you folks get to cleaning.

Ok, I'm totally fine with that. In fact, personally, I mostly support healthcare. You see me talking about single-payer, right? The difference is I can respect someone's opinion who doesn't. I don't think I should be forcing my view on anyone on large entitlements like this.

Philosophically I can see why people don't like it. Even social security should be modified, as it seems it's now benefitting the rich. But whatever. I'm the end I'll be fine either way.

I work in the energy industry. I guess me and my wife are pretty equal, but she's worth more money, we currently refuse to go for it. I guess I make 140 or so. I'll probably make 180 this year. She's worth 200 and should be a director right now but we are having another baby and I don't want her to take the position. I told her I'd work harder so she could take it easy for now. It's bad enough I work shift, so I can't be around all the time. I don't want her to have less time with the kids right now.

It doesn't really matter at this point. It's fine but the stress never ends, which I thought should happen but it actually got worse. It's bizarre.

I don't think I can keep up this pace forever.

I don't want to have a healthcare derail, but that's not how it works. As someone who lives in a country (Canada) with single payer healthcare, you end up paying a lot more percent in taxes to guarantee sub-par care for everyone. And by sub-par, I am being quite generous. My dog can get better healthcare than me. I could get my dog an MRI tomorrow, but if I wanted one I would have to wait 2-3 months. LOL. I believe roughly 1/5th of our population does not even have access to a family doctor, making the "universal health care" claim quite dubious.

I wouldn't call myself a conservative, either. I don't know what to call myself anymore but I know I don't want to be associated why anything remotely resembling people like you right now. Absolutely horrifying.

I believe henry17 told a story about a private clinic opening up in Canada to provide health services for people who were willing to pay for speedier/better healthcare and it was closed due to protests. It was a very sobering story.

This entire view is nonsensical. Who decides what is more deserving of help? If you're a minority? If you're ugly? If you're short? The only reasonable thing to do is judge people as individuals. This idea that you should be feeling sorry for people is idiotic. I was born into a low income minority family. Do you feel bad for me? I'll pm you my PayPal you can send me money.

Being born in poverty sucks but don't tell me it's impossible to climb out of. Access to quality education is an obstacle but liberals are in charge of everything when it comes to education so who is to blame?

lol at this goalpost shift. You wanted equality of opportunity, now it's this garbage? How far your hope for America has fallen in just a few hours.

None of us are born equal. None. Everyone has different abilities and situations. That doesn't matter, what matters is what happens when you can improve your situation.

What, exactly, do you have an issue with in terms of my position?

And as we've been over ITT today, it's harder to improve your situation in America than it is in your hated filthy Euro countries across the pond. That's an indictment of the things you value, because you claim to place importance on that.

And I do not agree with that. I actually believe it's pretty easy to move up, while I'll admit that many people do not agree. I think most people are just stupid and squander their opportunities. Shrug. I can't live other people's lives for them. I was lucky that my parents raised me in the right mindset and to not blame external factors for failure.

Failure or success is ON YOU in America. No one is going to give you jack ****. Go out and do it, make your life better. If you don't fundamentally believe that's possible in this country then we have a philosophical issue. I believe it's possible, almost easy. You don't.

This is America and no one cares what God you pray to or what color your skin is. I, for one, am grateful for that or I wouldn't be here.

Nobody ****ing cares about your feelings and fact-free beliefs, wil. You know how you posted articles earlier and they wound up my argument? There's a reason.

Most people are idiots. They believe stupid things and they become failures.

Why do you think so many people go to college and then can't find a job? Do you think there's no jobs out there? Lol. Of course not. It's because they study nonsense and come out with no skills because they made stupid choices. That's not my fault, it's theirs.

Life is about choices and effort. You make good choices and you'll be absolutely fine. Many people make BAD CHOICES and don't put in enough effort. Do not blame the system because you made mistakes. Fix your damn mistakes and stop whining about what you think you should have. It's pathetic. (This is not directed at you personally, I'm speaking in general terms)

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The extremely and pathetically narcissistic president of the United States has fake, photoshopped Time Magazine covers of him hanging at his golf clubs



This not a Time Magazine issue that has ever existed and this idiot has it hanging on the walls lmao

Not bad, not bad

Unless you believe in the prophet Muhammad of course. Then you're the devil.

You base your arguments on interpreted data. The united States ranks how well in education? Around 27th? That's technically correct but it sure doesn't paint the correct picture. America has the best education system in the world and everyone knows it. Again, it's because things are unequal here. It's DESIGNED THAT WAY.

His hair looks good there.

Bwahahaha, grunching, but, we're finally at the point where paying attention and remembering things is weird freak behavior. Incredible.

I mean, it shoulda been obvious and really does explain everything, it's just remarkable to see it spelled out.

Also grunching, but, confession: I am TiltedDonkey's gimmick account.

This is absolutely hilarious to me because I had this exact discussion with wil a couple months ago, and his tune was notably different when it was one of his allies acting like a total creep. Note wil's near-plagiarization above of "is that what you consider normal behavior" from my post (not saying it's intentional, just a funny parallel):

Dan hates liberals tho, so wil has a much harder time seeing any problem with that:

hahahahaha

So, like, what, did any of you dudes think I was joking, exaggerating for dramatic and poetic effect, when I said wil is the type of person responsible for everything that is wrong with everything?

Lol JFC.

And I only know how to find the wil goodies because I remember them all. But that goes without saying I'd assume

The part about 'look it up myself to see if I typed it' is too perfect.

I don't see what is so funny. Samson hangs on every word I say. It's creepy.

5ives obsession with me is downright criminal.