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Old 04-16-2017, 09:09 PM   #4376
wil318466
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Re: President Trump

Chez you are deleting my posts? Even when you see the results and know I speak the truth you delete them?

Death and destruction are coming. You know it, as you've already admitted you are sick of the election results.

People like you are part of the problems, Chez. Take a side and speak truth. Covering things up and pretending if we sugarcoat everything the world is going to be ok is NOT working. You're smart. Eventually you will realize your world view is deeply flawed.
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:14 PM   #4377
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
To get a little more on-topic: Republicans might have a Trump recruiting problem for the 2018 midterms

Perhaps weary of Trump's incredible and record-breaking unpopularity for a new president, some Republicans are deciding to sit out rather than challenge incumbent Democrats in the many states they face uphill Senate battles in for 2018:
That's encouraging. If Collins decides to run for governor of Maine, that could open up a competitive seat.

Still an uphill battle for Dems. Best case scenario is hold everything, flip Arizona, Nevada and Maine (Collins). Maybe you get lucky and have a serious R gaff in Tenn, Texas or Nebraska.

I think Trump approval would need to be consistently in the low 30s in 2018 for that to happen. And that is completely plausible.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:24 PM   #4378
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Chez you are deleting my posts? Even when you see the results and know I speak the truth you delete them?

Death and destruction are coming. You know it, as you've already admitted you are sick of the election results.

People like you are part of the problems, Chez. Take a side and speak truth. Covering things up and pretending if we sugarcoat everything the world is going to be ok is NOT working. You're smart. Eventually you will realize your world view is deeply flawed.
I don't agree you speak the truth. I'm trying to keep you in this discussion but if you don't make more of an effort to be PC then it will be a longer timeout.

As for me feeling sick - it's because of how badly we let down the people of Turkey and because of how very foolish it was in geopolitical terms. Opportunities for peaceful great progress are rare and we flunked it badly.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:44 PM   #4379
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
I don't agree you speak the truth. I'm trying to keep you in this discussion but if you don't make more of an effort to be PC then it will be a longer timeout.

As for me feeling sick - it's because of how badly we let down the people of Turkey and because of how very foolish it was in geopolitical terms. Opportunities for peaceful great progress are rare and we flunked it badly.
If I had a bigger vocabulary I could probably come up with a good word for what you're doing when you refer to that as being PC. It's not good. It's essentially validating the reactionary criticism of being decent human beings.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:58 PM   #4380
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
I don't agree you speak the truth. I'm trying to keep you in this discussion but if you don't make more of an effort to be PC then it will be a longer timeout.

As for me feeling sick - it's because of how badly we let down the people of Turkey and because of how very foolish it was in geopolitical terms. Opportunities for peaceful great progress are rare and we flunked it badly.
You don't have to try to keep me in any discussion. I don't gain knowledge from this forum. You have literally created an environment where honest discussion can't occur.

As far as the truth, you blaming Europeans for the idiocy of the Turks is a sad, sad thing to see. Your world view is wrong. Everything you've been taught is wrong. It's why your side keeps losing, everywhere. If you were correct progressives wouldn't be getting their asses kicked world wide.

Wake up, Chez. There's a whole lot more disappointment on its way, pick a spot where you finally say "enough". It's coming.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:34 PM   #4381
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Re: President Trump

I'm blaming Europeans for the what we did and the way we fail moderate and like minded people. There's no point blaming the far more conservative and extremists for failing - they are the ones getting what they want.

It's a constant theme in politics. If we want to win politically then we need to do a far better job.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:53 PM   #4382
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Re: President Trump

Some of the blame for Erdogan can be placed on the Trump administration. Here's Trump's National Security Advisor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trump's National Security Advisor
Turkey is really our strongest ally against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), as well as a source of stability in the region. It provides badly needed cooperation with U.S. military operations. But the Obama administration is keeping Erdoğan’s government at arm’s length — an unwise policy that threatens our long-standing alliance.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...ds-our-support
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:54 AM   #4383
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
I'm blaming Europeans for the what we did and the way we fail moderate and like minded people. There's no point blaming the far more conservative and extremists for failing - they are the ones getting what they want.

It's a constant theme in politics. If we want to win politically then we need to do a far better job.
I wish you the best, Chez.
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:54 AM   #4384
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Re: President Trump

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Lol, erdogan is an islamist.
Trump doesn't mind governments on the more extremist side of Islam, he will build great buildings and golf courses in Saudi Arabia.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:10 AM   #4385
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
I feel quite sick over Turkey. It was so likely that Turkey wasn't going to stand still politically. It was either going to take the final step towards merging with the West or move some other way. We (the west) did this to a huge number of moderate (secular and Muslim) people who wanted to be our friends and allies on an equal basis.
Turks in other European countries voted pretty decisively in favor of Erdogan/referendum. For example, ~70% of Turks in Germany and the Netherlands voted yes, after Erdogan repeatedly called these countries ''fascist'' and ''remnants of nazis''.

I really don't understand you blaming the West.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:30 AM   #4386
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by applepie View Post
Turks in other European countries voted pretty decisively in favor of Erdogan/referendum. For example, ~70% of Turks in Germany and the Netherlands voted yes, after Erdogan repeatedly called these countries ''fascist'' and ''remnants of nazis''.

I really don't understand you blaming the West.
How on earth do you expect a lot of Turkish people to react to the reaction of the EU to Turkish membership when the opportunity to welcome them moving towards being an equal partner was there?

The political direction in Turkey was to become part of the EU and continue it's journey towards liberal democracy. They got the, very grudging at best, message from the EU loud and clear and the ship turned. Now it's sailing away and the world is a much worse place for it.

and in significant part it was because many see them as Muslims and the EU as a christian union.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:54 AM   #4387
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Re: President Trump

How would the EU justify Turkey's membership given that its appalling human rights record puts it at odds with the EU?
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:11 AM   #4388
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Re: President Trump

It was all on the table. It was the political will from the EU that was lacking. These spectacular opportunities for progress are never clean and they aren't smooth sailing. We have to go for it hard and risk failing.

and we have to start considering our 'friends far more than our enemies'.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:34 AM   #4389
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Re: President Trump

Turkey did not meet the standards for EU membership and moved further away from them. There was a lack of will and effort but it wasn't on the EU side of the process.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:45 AM   #4390
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Re: President Trump

The resort were my brother works is having it's busiest year ever. Hmm! Interesting.

Meanwhile, our country is the safest it has ever been under President Trump. Hmm! Interesting.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:18 AM   #4391
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Re: President Trump

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
How on earth do you expect a lot of Turkish people to react to the reaction of the EU to Turkish membership when the opportunity to welcome them moving towards being an equal partner was there?

The political direction in Turkey was to become part of the EU and continue it's journey towards liberal democracy. They got the, very grudging at best, message from the EU loud and clear and the ship turned. Now it's sailing away and the world is a much worse place for it.

and in significant part it was because many see them as Muslims and the EU as a christian union.
Maybe we should call this the apologist forum.

Dont blame others, blame yourself. Its our fault. We weren't nice enough.

l really can't believe what I'm reading here.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:40 AM   #4392
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
Maybe we should call this the apologist forum.

Dont blame others, blame yourself. Its our fault. We weren't nice enough.

l really can't believe what I'm reading here.
It's nothing to do with being nice.

We acted in a way that was bad for like minded people, bad for ourselves and good for those who don't share our values.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:48 AM   #4393
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Re: President Trump

Chez, did you just delete one of my posts like a silly person?
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:00 AM   #4394
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Re: President Trump

Why do you guys keep saying "we"? Wil's not in Europe and chez is Brexiting.

And before Americans act superior because Turkey may be pulling away from the EU one should keep in mind the US wouldn't qualify to join because of our uncivilized laws.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:03 AM   #4395
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Why do you guys keep saying "we"? Wil's not in Europe and chez is Brexiting.

And before Americans act superior because Turkey may be pulling away from the EU one should keep in mind the US wouldn't qualify to join because of our uncivilized laws.
Well this was before brexit was considered possible. And I haven't quite given up on remaining yet.

Plus if we do leave I hope to live long enough to see us rejoin.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:05 AM   #4396
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Re: President Trump

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Chez, did you just delete one of my posts like a silly person?
?
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:12 AM   #4397
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Re: President Trump

No

I did delete one of your posts that doesn't belong in a content thread. Keep that out of the content threads please.

Edit: And don't complain about it here either please

Last edited by chezlaw; 04-17-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:33 AM   #4398
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Re: President Trump

lol
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:15 AM   #4399
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Re: President Trump

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I don't gain knowledge from this forum.
QFT
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:40 AM   #4400
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Re: President Trump

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Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
The resort were my brother works is having it's busiest year ever. Hmm! Interesting.
I can't even imagine what a sorry existence someone would have to lead to think this coolest of anecdotes is actually a response to my post. Like, to actually publicly write this and click "post reply" thinking to yourself "wow I totally just served the people who track tourism data for a living, cause THEY don't know MY BROTHER" - must be horrifying to wake up every day with that kind of handicap.
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