Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
President Trump President Trump

03-19-2017 , 02:02 PM
The hell kind of libertarian is this? He wants to jail leakers now? What about being tough on national security. He is HELPING Russia by being harder on the leakers than the actual collusion with a hostile foreign power!!!


https://twitter.com/ABC/status/843466220670148609

LOL He wants to personally give them lie detector tests. Of course Rand Paul is dumb enough to still think lie detector tests are a real scientific thing.
03-19-2017 , 02:27 PM
Are people really bickering over whether the Trump administration is stocked full of white supremacists? That's not a thing to argue over. It's a fact.

What to argue about is why the elites presented us with Hillary Clinton or white supremacists, and how far are they willing to go in this particular gambit.

Here's the problem dynamic: a non-populist platform will only work with high likelihood if the economy is doing well, but if the economy does well then the incumbent is pretty much invincible. The democrats will not adopt a populist platform because, to the elites running the party, that constitutes an existential loss. The strategy the centrist elites (known to you as democrats and "business" republicans) will probably take is to denigrate Trump, get his popularity down, and hope things are bad enough to create enough desperation to essentially force the population back to their particular doomsday program. I really doubt that will work. Trump from the incumbent position is a different animal for a lot of reasons.

One good thing that can come from this dynamic is more hacking and leaks. While the democrats and republicans were pretending to be different, they had a shared interest in maintaining secrecy. Now we have a situation where the shake up in the patronage networks is so destabilizing that there is a increased level of real fighting. Both sides are threatening each other with the truth, and that is a good thing.
03-19-2017 , 02:47 PM
When will Trump pick Shaq to replace the head of NASA?
03-19-2017 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Having read both your links, my view is that Einberts cite is sufficient to allow it here - it's a valid claim that you can disagree with but can't get disallowed on the basis of lack of cite.
A valid claim based on unsubstantiated flimsy evidence.

Are you serious?

Both your and einbert's threshold for proof is a lot lower than mine I'm afraid.
03-19-2017 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Both your and einbert's threshold for proof is a lot lower than mine I'm afraid.
Two things:
1. Something is not "fake news" because it hasn't been conclusively proven, that's your continuing inability to understand what "fake news" actually means at work
2. Don't worry, we know your threshold for ever believing someone in the Trump administration has Nazi sympathies is very, very, very high
03-19-2017 , 04:05 PM
Philadelphia's Cinco de Mayo celebration is canceled over fears of ICE raid

Just part of a healthy America when nonwhite ethnic groups are scared to celebrate their heritage in public
03-19-2017 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
A valid claim based on unsubstantiated flimsy evidence.

Are you serious?

Both your and einbert's threshold for proof is a lot lower than mine I'm afraid.
There are lots of very qualified people out there who are definitely, for sure, not Nazis. Why not just fire this guy and hire one of them instead? This is obviously going to distract from "Making America Great Again" at best, right?
03-19-2017 , 04:10 PM
Trump budget slates for elimination a HHS program that helps 5.7 million poor households with heating bills and helped 1.7 million households keep their power on

I'm sure wil will come by any minute to tell us you don't need heating or electricity to survive, right? Just bundle up! The administration identified this as a "lower-impact" program, which WaPo notes might be ignoring all the households that didn't freeze.

Quote:
Recipient families are low income, and tend to skimp on spending elsewhere to keep the lights on. "Nearly one third reported that they went without food, over 40 percent sacrificed medical care, and one quarter had someone in the home become sick because the home was too cold."

LIHEAP is also associated with better health among poor children (Frank et. al., 2006). Young children living in LIHEAP households were less likely to be undernourished, as well as less likely to require emergency hospitalization, than young kids in economically similar non-LIHEAP households.
03-19-2017 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
The hell kind of libertarian is this? He wants to jail leakers now?
Obama style? Obama has tried to jail not just whistle blowers but those who are unwilling to rat them out.

You can't have it both ways.
03-19-2017 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Two things:
1. Something is not "fake news" because it hasn't been conclusively proven, that's your continuing inability to understand what "fake news" actually means at work
2. Don't worry, we know your threshold for ever believing someone in the Trump administration has Nazi sympathies is very, very, very high
Do you consider narrowing the scope of discussion and blacking out significant news items to also be a form of "fake news"?

So when Bernie Sanders was signing up millions of people, going from essentially zero support to parity with the Clinton campaign, and that development got absolutely zero news coverage in the mainstream media, is that fake news?
03-19-2017 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Obama style? Obama has tried to jail not just whistle blowers but those who are unwilling to rat them out.

You can't have it both ways.
No, it was wrong in some cases when Obama did it and it's wrong now. I'm so sick of whataboutism. Wrong is wrong.

Here's an update for you. OBAMA IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. There is a real authoritarian in the office now. Get the **** over yourself.
03-19-2017 , 04:27 PM
Important info re: Gorka:
Quote:
Yes. There is. Two leaders of Vitezi Rend told the Forward that they had inducted Gorka as an oathed member, after he was introduced by his father. The Tablet's refutation wasn't a refutation, merely a denial by Gorka. He wears the insignia, he uses the characteristic 'v' for 'vitez' as a middle initial -- which no one ever does unless they are members of Vitezi Rend -- and he has proven longstanding ties with the Hungarian far-right.

And he has every reason to lie, because his membership of Vitezi Rend means that he obtained US citizenship illegally under false pretences. Vitezi Rend, being Nazi-affiliated, is a reportable organisation under US immigration rules and you can bet that Gorka failed to report his membership to the INS when seeking naturalisation.
03-19-2017 , 04:28 PM
Gorka is an illegal immigrant, that means he has to be deported right Sushy? Rules is rules right?
03-19-2017 , 04:32 PM
Yeah Deuces, the whataboutism is realllllllly strong in your last couple posts. I've written many posts about Obama's deplorable behavior towards whistleblowers and can conclusively say that you coming off as a Rand Paul shill in this spot is a pretty bad look.
03-19-2017 , 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
A valid claim based on unsubstantiated flimsy evidence.

Are you serious?

Both your and einbert's threshold for proof is a lot lower than mine I'm afraid.
The ruling isn't about proof of Einbert's claim. Nor does it mean that I agree (or disagree) with the claim. It just means that in my view it's passed the threshold for being allowed as a claim* about a public figure after being challenged.

*It's not a terribly high threshold when there's no PC issue and we're talking about someone who is serving as deputy assistant to potus.
03-19-2017 , 04:43 PM
OK. Thanks for the clarification.
03-19-2017 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Important info re: Gorka:
Come on einbert. You should know better than to quote from a source without providing a link.
03-19-2017 , 04:48 PM
http://forward.com/news/366339/sebas...oes-it-matter/
Quote:
Sebastian Gorka, President Trump’s deputy assistant, and his chief adviser on counter-terrorism, has undisputed ties to the Vitézi Rend — a far-right Hungarian group who were close allies of the Nazis in World War II. Born in Britain to Hungarian parents, he became a naturalized American citizen in 2012 after marrying Katherine Cornell. No one has suggested that there is evidence he is anti-Semitic or an enemy of Israel but the ongoing political affiliations of White House advisers matter. Here is the actual evidence under discussion, and why it matters.
The Evidence

1. The Medal
Sebastian Gorka wore a medal awarded by Vitézi Rend (Order of Knights), a far-right, nativist Hungarian group at the Trump inauguration. Although belatedly saying that it was worn in honor of his father, he has refused to comment on why he would wear a medal from a group that is, apparently, still proudly anti-Semitic.

2. The “V.” Members of the Vitézi Rend, and only members, are entitled to sign themselves Vitézi, or “v.” Gorka signed himself “v.” twice in official documents. First on his (2007) PhD, and second to Congress when he testified before the House Armed Services Committee, Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities, on June 22, 2011.

3. The Vitézi Rend Leaders Three separate leaders of the group have said that Gorka is a member.

“Of course he was sworn in,” said Kornél Pintér — a leader of the Vitézi Rend in Western Hungary.

“Of course, only after the oath,” György Kerekes, a current member of the Vitézi Rend, told the Forward when asked if anyone may use the initial “v.” without going through the Vitézi Rend’s application process and an elaborate swearing-in ceremony.

Imre Fehér, another local Vitézi Rend leader, wrote: “Kornél Pintér briefed you in detail about vitéz Sebastian Gorka and his late father,” referring specifically and emphatically to Gorka as “vitéz,” the honorific the group gives to sworn members of the organization.

Read more: http://forward.com/news/366339/sebas...oes-it-matter/
03-19-2017 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Couple of things:

The medal belonged to his father.

Gorka has reportedly denied he is a member of that group.

Verbal allegations that he is a member of the group by "leaders" of the group is not conclusive evidence.
03-19-2017 , 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
No, it was wrong in some cases when Obama did it and it's wrong now. I'm so sick of whataboutism. Wrong is wrong.

Here's an update for you. OBAMA IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. There is a real authoritarian in the office now. Get the **** over yourself.
The authenticity of authoritarianism is determined by actions, not marketing campaigns. Every bad thing Obama did provides complete legal cover for Trump doing those same things. Obama created dangerous precedents and norms which Trump can now use to even worse ends.

You can't rightfully dismiss charges of your deep level of hypocrisy as "whataboutism". I'm not saying someone somewhere also did bad things. I am saying that the democrats, and by extension YOU, endorsed those bad things.

True, Obama is not the president. Trump is, and you and your pals at the DNC are responsible. You will have to own up to that before you can even get to a place where you can get the **** over yourself. An honest assessment of what has happened is the first step in trying to defeat Trump, to correct the wrong for which those who think like you are directly responsible. Until you renounce the democratic leadership, at least the current manifestation thereof, you don't have a leg to stand on.
03-19-2017 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Gorka is an illegal immigrant, that means he has to be deported right Sushy? Rules is rules right?
If it is proved that he's an illegal immigrant, sure.
03-19-2017 , 05:20 PM
How about how it's not just a pin? It's him using the idiotic Nazi "v." whatever and wearing that idiotic childish ridiculous entire Nazi outfit to the God damned inauguration and not just some Nazi play date. This ****ing clown is someone that the Trumpenfuher wants in his administration? Well, of course it is.

03-19-2017 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
True, Obama is not the president. Trump is, and you and your pals at the DNC are responsible. You will have to own up to that before you can even get to a place where you can get the **** over yourself. An honest assessment of what has happened is the first step in trying to defeat Trump, to correct the wrong for which those who think like you are directly responsible. Until you renounce the democratic leadership, at least the current manifestation thereof, you don't have a leg to stand on.
If you go back I've actively criticized the Democratic leadership many times. Not only on civil liberties but also on being corporatist on issues like the minimum wage and universal health care. I actually voted against Obama in 2012 because I felt like he wasn't progressive enough for me. I supported Bernie before supporting Hillary in 2016. You don't know my full backstory.

But if it makes you feel better, I'll denounce Donna Brazile three times.

I, einbert, hereby renounce Donna Brazile.
I, einbert, hereby renounce Donna Brazile.
I, einbert, hereby renounce Donna Brazile.
03-19-2017 , 05:26 PM
Oh and if that's not proof enough of his being a Nazi, he wrote for Breitbart ffs.
03-19-2017 , 05:33 PM
I'm starting to suspect Donald Trump has a degenerative brain disease. I'm not kidding.

He's starting to come across as a petulant, spoilt 7 year old in both words and actions - much like some people get when senility kicks in.

      
m