Cite? Because Trump seems to disagree with you.

In other words:
(e) DHS will tell Trump what countries he should ban because they aren't being cooperative enough in telling us about their citizens, and then
(f) DHS/State can tell us who else we should ban just because we feel like it.

The cite is right in the Executive Order, which you are reading wrong.

The sections you are citing are pertaining to:
and
This is pertaining to countries providing sufficient information to vet the people from those countries entering the US, as designated by the U.S. immigration laws. All this is saying is that non-compliance of submission of such information will be included in a list for the President's review as countries that should be barred from entry until compliance is met. This is something the president is allowed to do under current immigration laws (since visa cannot be granted unless adequate information provided to immigration is met, and the executive has wide discretion as to what constitutes adequate information) and has nothing to do with modification of the seven countries selected by Obama and Congress specifically as areas of concern, which allows him to bar even valid visa holders.

DHS has special discretion to include countries in that list of non-compliant countries, but again, nothing to do with the countries specifically selected by Obama and Congress as areas of concern. Trump cannot change those countries designated as areas of concern without approval from Congress.

Mori****a, looking deeper into the claim made by your original post it strikes me as very, very dishonest.

Reading your sources it appears that Obama put these countries on a list of exceptions to the Visa Waiver Program. From this link you provided, the VWP is:

The list of countries was an exception to the VWP; people who had traveled to those countries recently were exempt from the VWP and would have to get a visa to enter the United States.

This is completely different from how Trump is using the list. The only thing in common here is the list of countries; Obama never banned people from those countries from entering the US, or prevented green card holders from those countries (!!!!!!!!) from re-entering their home in the United States, or turned people from those countries who had obtained legal visas back at the border and told them to leave.

It is incredibly rich to, in a post where you blast the media for their dishonesty, act like what Trump is doing here is simply doing the same thing Obama did. Trump is taking this to far lengthier extremes than Obama and it is a pathetic absolution of responsibility to try to pass it off otherwise.

It is reasonable to suggest that Obama participated in an expansion of executive powers that, placed in the wrong hands (like Trump's), would allow for far larger abuses of power than liberals would ever have agreed to. People like Glenn Greenwald have argued this for awhile and I agree with him. If that is all you're suggesting here and I've mischaracterized you as going farther, then I apologize. But when it comes to certain things you posted, it's hard to think that's unfair:

- suggesting that people are "hypocrites of the highest order" for failing to oppose Obama on far less offensive and vindictive applications of this law
- putting all of this at the feet of Obama and assigning Trump zero blame for significantly expanding its use specifically for the purpose of blocking a members of a specific religion from entering the country

I'm sorry, but take that dishonest trash elsewhere.

Like, to put this in even simpler terms (and I know you understand this already, which makes me even more incredulous that you argued what you did):

- Obama: People from 38 countries (mostly European & other Western allies) who had traveled to Iraq, Libya, et al needed a visa to enter the US; visa practices for people actually from those countries were not affected by the law
- Trump: okay we're gonna take that same list, previously used for members of visa-free nations (not the listed countries themselves) who had traveled to the listed countries, and use it to just ban everyone from those countries full stop
- Mori****a: Thanks, Obama!

I mean, WTF? If there's something I'm getting majorly wrong about the law please tell me, you strike me as well-read on the subject (which, again, makes me all the more incredulous about your argument), but I read all of the sources you provided and did some additional Googling of my own and I don't see what I'm missing.

Unrelated:



Thanks, Trump!

That's bigly.

Hey, does trump know that permanent and historic resistance has sprung up all over?

BTW- I'd like to ask him, on a scale of one to ten, how well does he handle rejection?

The way people are becoming politically active is the one huge silver lining on the mega cloud.

He handles rejection by deciding everyone who rejects him are terrible people.

As well she should. If she hadn't been there, then it would never have happened. I hope she learned her lesson.

You're not being very clear about what you want out of the content threads. Please make rules that are clear and don't change every other day.

They are going to be about the political subject(s), not be about opinions on posters, not be derailed, not be about forum arguments and kept from getting stuck as much as possible. Plus they are going to be moded with a PC bias.

If that's not clear enough then bring it up in a moderation thread.

Normal politics ended though. We see now are citizen actions, human actions, civic actions, and government actions. Not an election in near-sight. However people are representing themselves and others in a dramatic presentation and yeah may even move politics.

The high risk countries is were the terrorists are trained. It's were the majority of people who want to kill us reside. It's more difficult to vet people from these places. It's more likely for these people to be state funded.

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, probably a duck.

You can't stop all bad people from coming into the country. This is why it makes sense to prioritize our focus.

You keep calling these 7 countries high risk but you have failed to respond to posts showing that there is no evidence of risk. Dylan Roof, a white supremacist, has killed more Americans than the combined immigrants from those 7 countries since 1975. Why won't you comment on that Mondgsisl?

This is the greatest show on Earth, how can anyone not love this? I'm in to watch it all burn. Burn, burn, burn, **** it.

All this action against the ban is good, but it also pisses me off a lot. Were were all these people when Obama was bombing these countries?????

What's the thinking here? We can bomb them to bits and you say nothing, but try to keep them out of the country OH HEYAOW NAAAHHHWWW!!!!!!

I really don't get it. Are these new protestors just partisan agitators? because where the **** have you been while Obama has been ****ing **** up?

If only the protesters stayed home Deuces wouldn't be having his worldview shook. People sure can be capricious.

I am feeling extremely magnanimous right now, so I will step back and walk you through this despite your initial response.

What you are missing is the intent of the law, which the infamously hard line conservative Diane Feinstein explains as follows:

So the purpose of this law is national security, and the intent of the law is to force such people in the seven countries to obtain a visa, which puts them directly in control of the executive. The executive has broad powers to deny visas or even reject valid visas if the issue is national security. Case in point, the Obama administration denied several people entry into the US in view of that legislation over national security concerns, even people with valid entry visas as in one famous example that the ACLU litigated for Marjan Vahdat:
https://www.niacaction.org/visastories/

The Obama administration chose to do this on a case by case basis for people who fall under this legislation and for the seven countries that they and Congress selected, and had also suspended processing visa applications and entry of Iraqi refugees before under similar justification. So yes, Obama and Congress built this and provided the direct precedent for the current ban that Trump is implementing with the executive order, specifically for people who have visited or are foreign nationals of those seven selected countries.

Even though Trump has implemented it as an immediate blanket ban, the executive order also states that:

so in effect, it is the same implementation that Obama and Congress built and only differs with respect to how Syrian refugees are handled (justified under the selected seven countries) and the immediacy of the ban. So yes, if you didn't complain about it then (as the ACLU and NIAC had), then you are either very ignorant of the precedent that Obama set or quite hypocritical for complaining about Trump using the law and powers as intended.

To address the other points:

- Does not apply to green card holders, which is not a visa but rather confers permanent residence status and is subject to different laws which provide specific guidelines as to the rights of green card holders. Although I expected ICE to screw this point up and leave a talking point for the media to explode on, it looks like no green card holders were denied so the issue is moot.

- If this is truly the so-called Muslim ban that everyone accuses Trump of wanting, then this is an awfully ineffective way of implementing it while pissing away quite a bit of political capital. Instead, he could've waited for Tillerson to take office as Secretary of State, and then one by one brand each of the Muslim majority countries (or hell, just Saudi Arabia given that Mecca is there) as State Sponsors of Terrorism, and in combination with the aforementioned legislation from Obama and Congress, there would've been **** all that anyone could've done about it, at least not without a long and ugly litigation with the Department of State over the legal justifications provided by the Department of State. There is no way, not with both how W and Obama used the Department of State and with the advisors that currently surround Trump, that Trump does not know this. So no, it is very hard to imagine that Trump is doing this because he truly wants to ban Muslims; that rhetoric was aimed at rallying his base rather than being the intended point.

Surprising literally nobody, the Rhodes scholar who needed that spelled out also posted this:

I almost ponied myself.

"Trump has the power to launch nukes, therefore launching nukes is fine"

If that's the smart trumper WAAF

I have some Questions for you Guys. In which way did Trump ever harm Black People ?
What is so bad about not letting People in from countries were the majority of the Population hates America ?

The left isn't principled. Obama can drone strike a wedding party in Yemen and not a peep, Trump buts a temporary travel ban and he's literally Hitler.

I think I've mentioned this before, but the nice thing about the Trump presidency is that the left will now care again about war crimes.

I'll answer you again in here because monosodos never answered this either. Since 1975 refugees from those 7 countries on the list have killed 0 people. Since just last year white supremacists have killed 9 people. Why aren't we banning white supremacists?

From what I am piecing together regarding why Obama's DHS labelled these countries as problematic is because they don't have a functioning government where you can double check where they went to and about. There is also either Al Queda and or ISIS functioning in parts of those countries.

Obama identified these countries after FBI and CIA told the intelligence security congressmen about how difficult it was so vet these countries. Congress then passed a law. This was to stop people of foreign natives joining terrorist groups abroad in war torn countries then coming back to US.

Trump is just taking that and going on steroids with it, which I disagree with but that is the story of this ban. I'm not sure where Iran fits in, but probably the fact that they harbor and fund Hamas terrorists.