Already linked lower life expectancy and increased opiod epidemics in Medicaid expanded states itt.

Not to mention my own personal experiences and anecdotes.

The big secret of Obamacare is that while everyone might have access to insurance, high deductibles and premiums make it too expensive to use. It is one giant **** up. Which, oh by the way, was designed to fail after Obama left office. This isn't even disputable.

My personal experience buying insurance on the exchanges has been completely positive. Therefore clearly Obamacare has no issues and is working perfectly in all areas and in all ways :P

Already been cited. But here's some additional information for you, just in case:

Affordable Care Act Premium Increases:

http://time.com/money/4826591/aca-premiums-cost-2018/


And these subsidies means somebody's tax dollars are paying for the increases as well.

How's your usage of Obamacare been? What plan on you on? Have you had any major medical issues outside of primary care coverage?

I make two citations and one personal anecdote and you reply with inanity? Give me a break.

I'm asking "what could happen that would force you to reevaluate how you feel about Trump?"

Would your example be an answer to this question as well?

Two weeks ago: "Brilliant move by Trump to bring in Scaramucci. He'll clean things up."

Today: "Brilliant move by Trump to get rid of Scaramucci. He was a total distraction."

Your Time magazine citation does not establish your claim simply because health insurance rates were increasing very quickly prior to Obamacare. You'll notice that the CBO does its projections in comparison to an expected baseline under current law, whereas you are just citing absolute numbers. Here, for example, is a different Time article that compares the actual rate increases under Obamacare to those projected by the Kaiser foundation to occur absent the law:

In other words, we have had and continue to have a problem with health care costs rising too quickly. Obamacare did not fix that problem. But in point of fact it did not increase the growth rate of those costs in comparison to the period of time between 2001->2011.

Beyond that, though, you ignored the part of the article that discusses the causes for larger expected rate increases in 2018:

Now, this is not to say that there aren't problems with the exchanges, especially in certain states or certain counties. Even beyond the fact that we still have a problem involving costs growing too quickly. But Trump's sabotage is actively making the problem worse. Obviously the law was not designed to function well with a hostile executive branch.

"Letting it implode" is not going to make anything better.

Yeah. I think that question has a bigger direct impact on Scott than myself.

To be fair - the Presidency doesn't have 'much' direct impact on my life.

That said - Obamacare had a HUGE negative impact on my life (in MULTIPLE ways, without getting too personal).

I guess if Trump doubled down on Obamacare, that would be bad. Even leaving Obamcare in place can't hurt me more than it already has - it can only get better, once again - for me personally.

Scott Adams morning Periscope was right on - I elected Trump to break things. Americans are good at fixing things. We don't want Trump playing the game, we want him upending the table.

I'm trying to think what one point of policy I'm really disagreeable with Trump or if there were one campaign promise he could break where I'd draw the line. Can't really think of anything. And with that said - all of Trump's indicators are heading in the right direction.

That said - we haven't seen Trump in a crisis yet. What does Trump do with a 9/11 or a 2008 Financial recession? We'll see - I'm optimistic.

That's not true. You've got to tear old buildings down to make way for new ones.

Better analogy would be occupied buildings.

You cannot KNOW that. We view history by what happened. Not to mention, most economic and modeling projections end up being wrong. We can only go with "what is", not "what might have been".


Right - so, not only are people facing premium increases, but they'll also be facing higher taxes as well. Do you think these subsidies come from magic faeries? When you tax a business, you know that gets passed on to the consumer, right? The subsidy costs should be added to the individual premiums to get a true reflection of the Obamacare burden on the people.



This is the kicker though:
When you use Executive fiat and fail to pass healthcare in a bipartisan way, you are forced to use Executive authority to make your plan work. Then you forget that you're not always in charge and your entire plan crumbles. What kind of idiot takes over 1/7 of a nation's economy and bases it on the whims of whoever is in the Executive branch.

Were there not occupied buildings torn down to make way for Obamacare? I remember something about liking and keeping doctors and plans, something something....

I'm pretty sure the adults around here know that most health insurance plans have high premiums and deductibles.

This conspiracy theory is almost quaint compared to the Seth Rich/Pizzagate chowder you usually spew.

My sentence could have been clearer: we do in fact know that premiums grew more slowly between 2011-2016 than between 2001-2011. It is not my opinion that Obamacare is the only possible cause of changes in the trends. However, we can safely conclude that Obamacare did not cause an increase in the growth rate of premiums, since no increase in the rate of growth occurred. This already contradicts your claim.

This is false. Premiums going up does not change the Obamacare taxes. People with incomes over 200k/yr (along with medical device manufacturers and some other businesses) faced a tax increase when Obamacare was passed. However, this, imo, is a feature, and not a bug. Rising costs -- to repeat myself -- are a problem. But it is not causing people to pay more in taxes, and there is no reason to believe that Obamacare contributed to any increase in the growth rate of premiums that I'm aware of. Obamacare greatly reduces the burden of rising premiums on those who receive subsidies, or who were able to get on Medicaid because of Medicaid expansion. This is a good thing imo.

This is nonsense. Obamacare did not happen by executive fiat. It was passed by congress and signed by the President. Like many other laws, many of its functions have to be carried out by the executive branch. That is completely normal. On the other hand, Trump's threats to dismantle it are by executive fiat.

Also, your objection rings a little hollow considering that I don't recall you having any complaints about the GOP's efforts to unilaterally repeal Obamacare over the last 6 months or so.

Allocating tax money that was not previously allocated is an increase. Now you might take it from somewhere else - but then again, that's money you could simply return to the tax payers. As for your "feature", that's ridiculous. It doesn't belong to you to begin with. And being so stupid as to design a healthcare proposal to rely on such a "feature" is the height of short-sightedness.


There are 1,442 citations of the "The Secretary shall...", meaning it IS controlled by the Executive branch. Every single one of those actions can become a "meh".

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/17/here...-obamcare.html

This is how you set up a system designed to fail.

Increases in spending are not the same as increases in the tax rates. You claimed that "not only are people facing premium increases, but they'll also be facing higher taxes as well." This is simply false. It's like claiming that if congress allocates funds to pay for a border wall that this will mean people facing higher taxes.

Your complaint about government spending tax money on health care subsidies appears incoherent to me.

I have no doubt Obamacare did negatively effect certain people and I am sorry if you were one of them but I'm sure you would agree that in terms of talking about these major changes to our economy, we have to talk about the aggregate.

Lobbying/hoping for changes that help you personally is understandable and perfectly fine but anecdotes are not something we can use to decide which direction the country needs to go. Every plan will effect some people positively and others negatively.

Are there things that you wouldn't want Trump to break? There must be things about the country that you feel has made it as good as it is, right? If Trump starts eroding some of those things, would your opinion of him change?

As I said - any funding is a tax (which is how Obamacare ended up being authorized by the Supreme Court, as you recall). Those funds could be returned to the taxpayer. That should be factored into the overall increases the taxpayers are burdened with (and let's not forget interest considering we're running a deficit as well).

Of course. But I'm not just one case - I'm just in the 'negatively impacted' camp, as are a significant number of people.

I will say that I think the fake Russia scandal that Trump's opponents have been pushing has hurt our country. The Cold War is over, I don't want to restart it. I'll concede we can agree to disagree on this until the verdict comes in.

And I don't know what type of "Russian collusion" I'd be willing to accept and consider that Trump crossed a line. Like, if he had the passwords to the DNC servers and gave them to the Russians directly? Let's not dwell here too much.

I get where Scott is going on Healthcare. The Republicans are offering a 7, the Dems are offering 9 (with increased taxation to pay for it) and the winning argument is coming up with a 12 (better care at lower costs). We'll see.

I'm all about more freedom, not less. I might have a healthier appetite for risk than some, but our ingenuity has made this country great.

I don't even mind if he restricts corporate overreach. Facebook, Twitter, and media censorship (little 'c', not big 'C') have been dreadful. A little smackdown might be deserved. Apparently the Supreme Court is looking at Social Media rights in relation to criminals being barred for life.

What could I want? Undo gay marriage? Outlaw abortion? Both things are unlikely and those ships have sailed. If I have to give in on funding Planned Parenthood to get a 12 healthcare bill, then so be it.

Could he allow for plural marriages? Ok - big deal. Genderless birth certificates? He's no social conservative so I don't see any dramatic moves on those fronts.

I suppose if he created more trade deals that lead to jobs leaving the country even faster, that would be bad. Here I'm for Fair Trade, not Free Trade.

Could Mattis want to go war mongering in a theater we're not already in? Like interfering in Ukraine and Crimea? I don't know enough about the situation to give an opinion. Obama was a disaster on foreign policy though - the alternatives are already an improvement.

Let me put it this way - nothing he's done so far has caused me to feel as if he's eroded the good things about this country and plenty he's done to make me feel he's strengthened. In fact, that has bought him some credibility when things don't go exactly according to plan.

Who is censoring media? What is little 'c' and big 'C'? Oh, maybe you are suggesting media *should* be censored. That would make sense coming from you, but correct me if I'm wrong. Media should be held to account for spreading propaganda, imo, but not by your opinions of truth and falsity which have been repeatedly exposed as dishonest.

Every Trumper claims the bolded. About 95% of you are full of ****.

Scott Adams switched his Presidential endorsement about eight times. He's the definition of a guy who checks which way the wind is blowing before opening his mouth.

If you agree with all of Trump's promises and policies, I've got news for you: you're a fool. At this point, a person would have to be brain-dead to still be behind the concept of the "wall". By the way, as far as broken promises, he indicated he'd destroy ISIS in "30 days" and push the economy to 4-7% growth. Oops.

Trump IS the crisis.

Jiggly's point is simply taxes are ungood and taxes used for social welfare are doubleplusungood. Which is, fine, whatev, sometimes simple is OK. However, the problem is he's too stupid to realize this is the simplistic stance he's taking/argument he's making. So, we get all this noise and nonsense.

This holy-s**t-they're-talking-to-each-other-like-they're-people moment below kinda sums it up.

If it was limited to Jiffy I might not bother but this Palinitis is an epidemic.

Also, Iron Tamer is one of the smart ones. Let that sink in.

No argument there.

I (probably like many other Trump haters) was probably too eager to accept evidence against Trump if it means him no longer being president but your use of the word fake suggests a similar bias from the other side. For reasons we don't have to get into an investigation seems warranted to me. That will lead where it leads. I'm happy to trust the process here.

Sure. Getting people to try the impossible can drive innovative thinking but there doesn't seem like there are reasons to think Trump has any idea what the status quo even is. He's suggested on multiple occasions that people pay ~$15 a year for health insurance. It makes me wonder if he's the one we want driving the ship. (To put it mildly)

Freedom of speech on the big social media platforms is an interesting area I haven't really thought through yet. I could be swayed that the right answer is something other than to just say that they are private companies that can do what they please but I'd need to hear some good arguments.

Trumps talk as it relates to the media is generally in regards to criticism of him/his administration. That is a hard no. It cannot be up to the government to police the media coverage about the government. (Obviously)

That's reasonable.

I feel different about trade and share your ignorance about Ukraine/Crimea but I appreciate that you were willing to give examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO3-R1PGZQU

Government is a hoax for toddlers. Govern-mental. Mind control. Proof that the In God WE Trust/ USA Inc the country is simply a common law irrevocable ecclesiastical trust in downtown Philly. Proof that the In God WE Trust exists with a DBA as USA Inc. A simple Dun and Bradstreet search will show you the exact same thing. May all beings be released from the hilarious illusion that is government. Your president is a tranny BTW