exactly!

Easier than trying to seize control of their identity.

Because he's a snowflake from wookieworld.

They can't handle it in the real world.

It's not bigoted to tell the truth. A man is a man. Get over the fact I do not buy into something that is not true. Only the left would believe it's rude, bigoted not to indulge in the belief of fiction. The left does not want me to treat them like a transgender, they want me to treat a transgender like their prefered sex, i.e. names, etc etc, which is perpetrating a falsehood.

This is a false argument. Words mean something. Calling someone a man or a he actually means something. It's literally the way we describe other human beings. It is not trivial in the least bit.

You are literally saying we can interchange words we use every day dependent on one specific person's sense of reality. Do you call something red that is blue because another person wants you to call it blue?

You sound like a crazy person. Listen to what the **** you're saying. Your argument is "it's not a big deal!". What kind of argument is that?

No its true.

No, it's not ****ing true. What is this silly response? You just throw your hands up and say "no", like a baby?

WORDS MEAN SOMETHING. You don't call a 50 year old person a child. You don't call a tree a dog. You don't call a nose an ear. And you sure as hell don't call a man a woman.

We know what men and women are. We know that human sexuality can be complicated and that people have certain mental issues that may cause them to think they identify with another gender. That doesn't make it true.

Even if you transition from a man to a woman and get your penis removed and have a vagina created for you and take hormones and look and talk and act like a woman, you are STILL NOT A WOMAN. You may be called one due to your appearance, and you may be accepted as one due to your behavior and appearance (in society), but you are NOT a woman.

There is no real discussion here. There is no gray area where we can argue back and forth about social constructs or acceptance. A trans MTF can NOT have a baby and does NOT have the female reproductive system.

I'm sorry. I wish there was a way to make it so, so that people can find happiness and peace within their own selves, although I still think that would be an issue. I do not deny them their humanity and I do not wish them any harm, however this issue is really not up for debate. Their hurt feelings doesn't get to dictate how I interact with the world around me. NO one's feelings do. Reality is reality and you are supporting changing that depending on another person's wishes.

It's insanity, and frankly, a topic that makes you and your side look like delusional crackpots. If there is any single topic that makes no sense from the left, it's this one. We can argue about economics or social issues or equality until we turn blue in the face, but you guys arguing that a human being with a dick is actually a woman is just ****ing crazy.

They will make that so someday. Probably not to far off if the conned and their conman dont get us all killed.

Stubborn raging need to control other people's identity speaks for itself.

I'm not raging at all. I'm simply annoyed at having to explain something so easy to understand, and something that has never been an issue in all of human history until just a few years ago.

YOU can do whatever you wish with your life. Please, feel free. Just don't force ME to have to cater to it.

I'm sorry, this is just stupid. One, it's not accurate. Two, its inaccurate for the purpose to make someone look bad.


This is not an issue of controlling peoples identities. It's clear who is trying to control something, the left is obviously trying to control and dictate my, and others, interpretation by bullying me, and others into indulging in a delusion, falsehood, myth, or what ever word you want to use to describe something that is not true.

No one is forcing you by expressing their views. They are expressing an opinion you should call people what they want even if you dont agree with it. There is no force there. You need to use the toilets.

I see you've accepted your side of this argument is absurd.

That's good, because it really makes you look like a stupid person. I guess your virtue signalling overrides your ability to be reasonable, which is the problem of the left in a nutshell.

This, my friends, is why leftists are laughed at.

You sound like you made yourself the victim of what looks like your own prejudices and have the frustration of futilely trying to control things well beyond your grasp. Sad.

Laws are force.

I'm glad I'm not as "educated" as you are about what a human with a penis should be called. I guess they can talk you people into believing absolutely anything.

It's like a puzzle that the more you struggle with pushing delusions narratives upon others the more you appear to be the one delude.

Supporting TG and doing something as easy calling someone what they want is the right thing morally.

If talking about what you think is right is virtue signalling on this issue and you think you are right...

A man tells me they feel like a woman....


That is not a delusion. That is a conflict with between their identity and reality.

A man tells me they are a woman, while taking steps to make their appearance as such.

That is a lie based upon a delusion, while they create an illusion to support the lie.

Sure. I assume by transitioning you mean various interventions like surgery, hormone therapy, etc? On the one hand, I would make no claims about what the best options for trans people are. I think it's a difficult and open question. I think that it makes sense to understand trans peoples' desires in the context of the culture they live in, which tells them that there are only two legitimate sex/gender categories, and that thus they must either be men or women, wholly and completely, in order to have a legitimate sense of identity. I wonder if, to some extent, the desire to transition is conditioned by that social reality. If there was a third socially legitimate gender category (the "legitimate" part is important here), would some transgender people choose to leave their biology alone? I don't know the answer, but I suspect yes. Underneath specific requests about the use of pronouns or etc. I believe there is more fundamentally the basic human need for social validation, to be able to harmonize one's identity with the social world in which gender and sexuality are so fundamental to our social sense of ourselves.

But, because of those considerations, I doubt that research could really establish the effectiveness of transitions, at least as of yet, because you're still transitioning into a cultural milieu which is highly suspicious of transgender people, transitioned or not. How much of a person's psychological well-being is conditioned by social acceptance? I believe there is research in this direction in social psychology, although I've never methodically reviewed it.

My guess is that it's not really effective to legislate cultural change, at some point. So I would focus more on just basic equality of rights and anti-discrimination. But I think, again given the above considerations, that there's some tension involved with people who are both opposed to adding gender categories to embrace transgendered people but also opposed to transgender people being identified with their chosen gender. As unreflective as Wil or nomaddd's position is, for example, I'm at least mildly sympathetic to the idea that it is culturally difficult to collapse all distinctions between cis and trans men or cis and trans women. This comes up as a problem even in some very "leftist" contexts, like feminist safe spaces that want to exclude men and MTF transgender people.

But, if you accept that transgender and intersex are real phenomena, not some random choice people make because apparently they like to make themselves miserable, and you recognize that social acceptance and legitimacy is foundational to basically every human's psychological well-being, then what are the good options for trans or intersex people whose assigned gender conflicts with their experiences of themselves? To me it seems like the most stable cultural configuration involves recognizing transgender in some way as a legitimate third category, as has happened in various cultures. Now, obviously anyone can struggle with their sense of identity relative to what culture tells them they ought to be. Cis-men may struggle to be "masculine" in the approved ways. Women to be "feminine" much the same. All of the ideas that underlie gender are contested. I doubt any configuration removes that part of being human. But it seems to me that as much as I may rebel against certain conceptions of masculinity, I have no doubt about my gender identity being accepted in some basic way. I don't know exactly how culture should adapt to transgender people, but there is no good argument against trying to find a way to allow them to feel that their struggles with identity are also in-bounds, as it were.

I said he needs to use the toilets to make it force.

There is no law making you call someone what they want or stopping you form calling them delusional. And me saying you should not is not force.

+1

You've made straw transgender people to mind.

Bodily appearances are tricky. Judge a person's gender by their cover and you maybe mistaken. Blaming others won't solve that. Semantics games with manufactured characters won't solve that.

Giving up solves that. Mind your own identity. Recognize people's boundaries. Give up promoting delusion.

Anyone ever notice its always MTF and never FTM.

I like that wil is so shuttered he appears to think "transgenderism is a mental disease" is like, the conventional wisdom.