President Trump - Page 324 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

No, it's not. In fact it's probably the singularly most important form of protected speech under the constitution, and foundational to the very possibility of Democracy.

This was true when Republicans spent eight years doing it with Obama and it's true now.

There won't be any investigations.

Its amazing so many Americans are blind to the freedom that makes America great and are willing to destroy it.

07-09-2017 , 01:56 AM

#8077

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,077

Reporting on actual investigations into the possibility of collusion or Russian interference in general is not the same as making a claim to illegitimacy.

However, I'm not too interested in splitting hairs on this. Lets agree that they are challenging his legitimacy. This is not treasonous. It's bedrock free speech and a foundational right in a democracy. That's the actually important point here. If you value democracy then you should recognize that protecting the right to challenge the legitimacy of the government is of fundamental importance. No matter which party is in power.

07-09-2017 , 01:58 AM

#8078

JiggyMac

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Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

I don't think Trump was committing treason when he was calling Obama's birth certificate into question, but you do.

What I'm curious is - why weren't the rest of the networks covering the Birth Certificate? Certainly Fox and AM radio are covering the Russian investigations - they're not hiding from it.

The Russian issue is being fabricated. From corrections, to anonymous sources, to outright fake news.

Let me ask - why didn't CNN or the New York Times believe the sources who still to this day say the certificate is a forgery?

As a reminder - I'm not a birther, you Lefties brought this up.

07-09-2017 , 01:59 AM

#8079

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

Its amazing so many Americans blind to the freedom that makes America great and willing to destroy it.

Yeah, it is very very unAmerican.

07-09-2017 , 01:59 AM

#8080

JiggyMac

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Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

In your mind then, there is no act of treason possible against our government. What an irrational position to take.

Should we also start asking the Democrats when they stopped beating their spouses?

07-09-2017 , 02:01 AM

#8081

well named

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,077

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyMac

In your mind then, there is no act of treason possible against our government.

This is false. I did not claim that it was impossible to commit treason. I said it was impossible to commit treason by challenging (through protected acts of speech) the legitimacy of the president or any other government official or office.

There are many ways to commit treason. None of them involve protected speech.

07-09-2017 , 02:04 AM

#8082

DoOrDoNot

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,763

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

Yet it was easy for people who criticized Obama for things he did or called him out on his BC to be called 'racists' by the left wasn't it? Back to that ol' partisan hypocrisy again. Typical.

07-09-2017 , 02:05 AM

#8083

goofyballer

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I'll give Jiggy some credit, he's surprising me - he's not pushing back against the idea that Trump's birther actions were also treasonous whatsoever!

Bitchi, he has even more integrity than you!

07-09-2017 , 02:05 AM

#8084

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyMac

I don't know. Perhaps it's because they're good at judging sources, perhaps because they're bad, perhaps because they're biased? None of that is treason.

But, you're not a birther? So you think Trump was trying to delegitimize the President and thus by your criteria, you think Trump was committing treason.

07-09-2017 , 02:06 AM

#8085

JiggyMac

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Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

Protected speech is saying "I don't like you or your policies".

By saying the "President is not the elected leader of our government" you are essentially advocated for its overthrow. How can you not? If he is not the legitimately elected leader, isn't it our duty as citizens to correct such an injustice? Wouldn't it be treasonous NOT to overthrow such a person?

07-09-2017 , 02:06 AM

#8086

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot

Yet it was easy for people who criticized Obama for things he did or called him out on his BC to be called 'racists' by the left wasn't it?

Hahahahaha wait, what's the argument here? If protected speech can't be treasonous then it also can't be racist? How the **** does that logic work?

07-09-2017 , 02:06 AM

#8087

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

I'll give Jiggy some credit, he's surprising me - he's not pushing back against the idea that Trump's birther actions were also treasonous whatsoever!

Bitchi, he has even more integrity than you!

Which means that he shouldn't think it's treason to suggest Trump shouldn't be allowed to be POTUS, right? Being a traitor should be disqualifying I should think.

07-09-2017 , 02:08 AM

#8088

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,077

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot

Yet it was easy for people who criticized Obama for things he did or called him out on his BC to be called 'racists' by the left wasn't it? Back to that ol' partisan hypocrisy again. Typical.

Unless you want to argue that the left was accusing those people of treason, I'm not sure how you arrive at a charge of hypocrisy here. My post is about whether or not calling Trump illegitimate is treasonous. My position is that calling Obama illegitimate is protected speech, as is calling Trump illegitimate. Is that hypocritical?

I have this feeling you just sort of wandered over here and tried to inject the other conversation into this one without paying any attention to what is actually being discussed.

07-09-2017 , 02:08 AM

#8089

JiggyMac

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

I'll give Jiggy some credit, he's surprising me - he's not pushing back against the idea that Trump's birther actions were also treasonous whatsoever!

Bitchi, he has even more integrity than you!

Let me just ask you something though - do you think there is a difference between ineligibility and colluding with a foreign power?

Even if Obama was born in Kenya, nobody claims he didn't get the votes to become President (even if we'd like more transparency on legal voting).

07-09-2017 , 02:13 AM

#8090

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyMac

LOL now THERE'S exactly what I predicted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Who wants to bet that dumbass partisan JiggyMac also has very nuanced distinctions that suddenly appear in this definition when you ask him if it's treasonous for Fox News or Donald Trump to be "attempting to delegitimize [sic] the legitimate President of the United States"?

Suddenly the difference between "ineligible" and "didn't win the election" becomes verrrrrrry important when it comes to what constitutes "delegitimization"!

07-09-2017 , 02:16 AM

#8091

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyMac

As a reminder - I'm not a birther, you Lefties brought this up.

This unfortunately means you also are a traitor. If is treasonous to try to falsely delegitimize the President, then by claiming birtherism is false you are suggesting that President Trump committed treason himself, since birtherism was an attempt to delegitimize President Obama. By suggesting Trump committed treason, you are also suggesting he is not a legitimate president himself.

07-09-2017 , 02:16 AM

#8092

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyMac

Calling for impeachment, like Sarah Palin did for Obama, or calling for removal because of the 25th or any constitutional measures is not calling for the overthrow of the US government. Just the removal of the President. In Trump's case, for the removal of an idiot. Your conflation of the President with the government sounds like a political movement that spread in parts of Europe in the 1920s-30s.

Very very unAmerican.

07-09-2017 , 02:18 AM

#8093

JiggyMac

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

LOL now THERE'S exactly what I predicted:

Do you know how to answer questions? Just curious, asking for a friend.

Quote:

Suddenly the difference between "ineligible" and "didn't win the election" becomes verrrrrrry important when it comes to what constitutes "delegitimization"!

It's not?

I mean, I never really thought the Left was so stupid as to try to insinuate a foreign power would collude with a Presidential candidate (while a former Secretary of State was selling out our government via her private "foundation"). And then to watch them vomit all over themselves is laughable.

To the point - are there not degrees or does your world only consist of single variables?

07-09-2017 , 02:18 AM

#8094

batair

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Here’s what Trump said on Twitter after Obama’s election in 2012

"This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!"

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!”

07-09-2017 , 02:19 AM

#8095

JiggyMac

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

You don't seem to really know what you're talking about or at least you're incapable of cohesive thought here. Try reading back a bit.

07-09-2017 , 02:21 AM

#8096

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

NOT DELEGITIMIZATION WHEN TRUMP DOES IT THO

looooooooool

07-09-2017 , 02:22 AM

#8097

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

07-09-2017 , 02:22 AM

#8098

JiggyMac

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,809

Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

Yes, he also punched out CNN on Twitter too. Did you miss it? Good show.

07-09-2017 , 02:26 AM

#8099

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyMac

It's not?

To answer seriously, not that someone who needs an explanation as basic as this really deserves it: no, it's not! Suggesting that the President isn't eligible to hold his office by making up lies about him is an attempt to delegitimize him, full stop!