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06-30-2017 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
Remember when you posted that chain email as a thread? lol adios! Never change
06-30-2017 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
You are the one going on a bender over this. Sorry i answered your question about the slogan you quoted.
For the 3rd time I didn't quote a slogan.

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Also never mentioned racism.
Right bringing up 'allies/appeasers of the Nazis' in no way insinuates racism. Hey guys it's super easy to argue politics, let's just call our opponents Nazis! I am now fully convinced you are not only an inconsiderate fool, but a liar as well.

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I said at best they were appeasers of the Nazis and at worst allies.
And you were dead wrong.

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It like most groups had a diversity of ideas.
Nice backpedal/evasion. The one idea everyone shared was 'America First' (by keeping it out of the war).
06-30-2017 , 05:58 PM
uggg
06-30-2017 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot
There was a wide movement of pacifism in the United States prior to Dec. 7, 1941 and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with racism. However, both the patriotic pro war side and the patriotic pacifist side had to do with different peoples opinions of what was BEST FOR AMERICA.

I feel sorry for people who see everything that ever happens or any opinion they disagree with as a branch of racism. It's such a narrow minded, sad, myopic view of the world.
Lol. First you say "America First" fought the Nazis. They didn't. They opposed the war with Germany. You are sooo clearly wrong and making **** up that you're clearly not worth talking to as you can't understand it or are being disingenuous.

Now you're arguing that they weren't racist? That's a bold argument from someone who didn't even understand the cartoon. There were certainly pacifists opposed to the war and some in the America First movement. It's most prominent member, not so much.

06-30-2017 , 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Lol. First you say "America First" fought the Nazis. They didn't.
I didn't say that. I said the sentiment of 'America first' beat the Nazis, and the Soviets. This is poignantly elucidated by what happened to America First when the United States went to war. They closed up shop and jumped on the pro-war bandwagon. America first!

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They opposed the war with Germany. You are sooo clearly wrong and making **** up that you're clearly not worth talking to as you can't understand it or are being disingenuous.
I don't care about the America First movement. Why do you keep bringing it up?

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Now you're arguing that they weren't racist?
What is your evidence that they were? Again, I wasn't talking about the movement from the 30's.

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That's a bold argument from someone who didn't even understand the cartoon. There were certainly pacifists opposed to the war and some in the America First movement. It's most prominent member, not so much.
America First was a pacifist movement, you buffoon. Charles Lindbergh was a pacifist. Charles Lindbergh secretly divulged what he knew about the Luftwaffe to the US Armed Forces. Charles Lindbergh then supported the United States when it went to war after Dec. 7, 1941. Sounds like a Nazi supporting racist to me. Read the wiki on it (you won't). Also I would say Gerald Ford and John F. Kennedy were more prominent supporters than Charles Lindbergh.

[/QUOTE]

Ya I could post pictures of many world leaders and famous people with Hitler, does that make them all Nazi supporters?

Regardless, I don't even know why we are talking about this because I was never talking about this movement!

Last edited by DoOrDoNot; 06-30-2017 at 07:45 PM.
06-30-2017 , 08:16 PM
DoOrDoNot,

On the one in a million chance that you're not doing this intentionally you could just admit that you didn't understand the cartoon at first.
06-30-2017 , 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Trump has killed a lot of people.

http://www.salon.com/2017/04/30/is-t...pay-attention/

If you want something more specific that had Trump's personal approval.

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/09/...ful-seal-raid/
Are you so ****ing stupid as to equate wars with political assassination?

I can't even dignify your lunacy with any more response.
06-30-2017 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
DoOrDoNot,

On the one in a million chance that you're not doing this intentionally you could just admit that you didn't understand the cartoon at first.
Doing what intentionally?
06-30-2017 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggyMac
Are you so ****ing stupid as to equate wars with political assassination?

I can't even dignify your lunacy with any more response.
He equated nationalist sentiment now with a pacifist movement from 70 years ago (because he read an article on Salon--he's nowhere near smart enough for nuanced deception), so I don't doubt it.
06-30-2017 , 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot
I wasn't using it as a slogan though, please try and understand me. When I say 'Canada first' or 'America first' or 'Japan first' or 'Mexico first' it is not borrowing a slogan from Charles Lindberg or anyone else. It's a general sentiment, and that sentiment encompasses whatever you think is best for the country, with the caveat that you do what is best for the country FIRST. Those that fought in WWII, against Nazism, (including the black and native troops, which were segregated) were doing what they thought was best for their country, and I'm sure everyone from that time would agree with the sentiment. Ironically, Nazis believed also that they were doing what was best for Germany at the time.

Also, I didn't use the term AmericaN first either. The fact you instantly foam at the mouth at such an innocent comment is quite indicative of your pre-drawn conclusions and more indicative still of the contemporary tendency to tie neat little bows between things where no relation actually exists.

The trend for the better part of the last century has been to move away from nationalism towards globalism, and the sentiment 'America first' means mostly to get away from that trend because it has been a socio-political and economic disaster for millions of people. Millions of others affected by the same consequences of 'globalist policies first' believe in a socialistic framework ala Bernie Sanders and yet millions of others believe that electing a different face with the same status quo will help.

Everyone wants what is best for their family, friends, and country and you're no different in that regard from a Trump supporter, a Bernie supporter, a Stalinist or a neo-nazi. You can disagree with them all, but at least try and understand other peoples points of view because we are all coming from the same place.

The division that is kicked up whenever one side wins an election is despicable to me. We are all in this together, and we should attempt to work together rather than bicker and fight about every stupid little nuanced disagreement we might share.
walk it off mother****er
06-30-2017 , 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot
"The trend for the better part of the last century has been to move away from nationalism towards globalism, and the sentiment 'America first' means mostly to get away from that trend because it has been a socio-political and economic disaster for millions of people. Millions of others affected by the same consequences of 'globalist policies first' believe in a socialistic framework ala Bernie Sanders and yet millions of others believe that electing a different face with the same status quo will help. "

This is how he means it.
But america has done well under globalist trade policies. It's the poor who've gotten ****ed, largely because of politicians who're anti tax/redistribution... which has always been an essential part of making it work.

The question of whether free trade + tax / distribution is more efficient/effective than trade protectionism is maybe worthy of consideration, but it has nothing to do with putting america first.

It's more a matter of class warfare, driven by the governments (republicans) attempt to limit or rescind benefits to the people who've been hurt by it.
06-30-2017 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggyMac
Are you so ****ing stupid as to equate wars with political assassination?

I can't even dignify your lunacy with any more response.
I'm not equating them. Trump's murder of innocent civilians in an illegal war is far worse than Clinton's imaginary assassinations.
06-30-2017 , 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot
I don't care about the America First movement. Why do you keep bringing it up?
Even if you are bizarrely quoting a cartoon about one movement and then using the same phrase to refer to a different movement, you can't blame OTHER people for the confusion.
06-30-2017 , 10:06 PM
America, **** Yeah! was much better: peak nationalistic sentiment.
06-30-2017 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba
But america has done well under globalist trade policies. It's the poor who've gotten ****ed, largely because of politicians who're anti tax/redistribution... which has always been an essential part of making it work.
I'd argue against this vehemently. The middle class has gotten absolutely crushed. Globalist policies have been great for people like me. The investor/professional class has done awesome. High skilled labor? You have it all. Rising 401k and investments, rising house values, you have healthcare and job security. The only thing you really worry about is college tuition, but you plan that out and save.

Yeah. If you're an engineer and you marry a nurse when you guys are 26 years old, have 2 kids and live in a nice neighborhood? Yep. America is great.

Now go through the same exercise with a guy working construction making 18 dollars an hour married to a secretary making 17 dollars an hour. How have globalist policies helped them? If they lived in an ok neighborhood before they got pushed out due to the rising rents in cities across the country. Job security? Lol. 401k? Please. Healthcare? Hopefully one of them has benefits, but it probably doesn't even cover dental. Save to buy a house? Out of the question, when it's 300k to even start to find something decent. College? Lol, yeah, ok.

I went to a matinee a few weeks to watch alien covenant and somehow managed to spend 25 bucks. Christ, a cheesesteak is 10 dollars now. 10 dollars!

I really think many of you fail to see how stressful and hard it is for middle class people to make it. They are under siege in every category. Food, energy costs, schooling, insurance. Everything is a goddamn fortune these days. And what did the middle class get? Bad neighborhoods with cricket wireless stores and fried chicken joints.

It's a goddamn travesty. Open your eyes and look around you. Look at the bus stops. Look at the people working at the fast food joints. The middle class hasn't gotten a raise in what? 35 years?

It's a ****ing disgrace.
06-30-2017 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbaddabba
But america has done well under globalist trade policies. It's the poor who've gotten ****ed, largely because of politicians who're anti tax/redistribution... which has always been an essential part of making it work.

The question of whether free trade + tax / distribution is more efficient/effective than trade protectionism is maybe worthy of consideration, but it has nothing to do with putting america first.

It's more a matter of class warfare, driven by the governments (republicans) attempt to limit or rescind benefits to the people who've been hurt by it.
About 75% of the population disagree with you. 50% voted for Trump and the other 25% would have voted for Bernie.
06-30-2017 , 10:55 PM
Only half the pop voted at all.
06-30-2017 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
Only half the pop voted at all.
75% of the population that voted. Obviously that was implied because everyone knows only 50% of the total population voted.

I'll make sure and spell things out slowly and deliberately from now on for you
06-30-2017 , 11:04 PM
So wil says he'd argue against and then goes on to agree for 100s of words?

I don't even know what's going on anymore in this forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
I'd argue against this vehemently. The middle class has gotten absolutely crushed. Globalist policies have been great for people like me. The investor/professional class has done awesome. High skilled labor? You have it all. Rising 401k and investments, rising house values, you have healthcare and job security. The only thing you really worry about is college tuition, but you plan that out and save.

Yeah. If you're an engineer and you marry a nurse when you guys are 26 years old, have 2 kids and live in a nice neighborhood? Yep. America is great.

Now go through the same exercise with a guy working construction making 18 dollars an hour married to a secretary making 17 dollars an hour. How have globalist policies helped them? If they lived in an ok neighborhood before they got pushed out due to the rising rents in cities across the country. Job security? Lol. 401k? Please. Healthcare? Hopefully one of them has benefits, but it probably doesn't even cover dental. Save to buy a house? Out of the question, when it's 300k to even start to find something decent. College? Lol, yeah, ok.

I went to a matinee a few weeks to watch alien covenant and somehow managed to spend 25 bucks. Christ, a cheesesteak is 10 dollars now. 10 dollars!

I really think many of you fail to see how stressful and hard it is for middle class people to make it. They are under siege in every category. Food, energy costs, schooling, insurance. Everything is a goddamn fortune these days. And what did the middle class get? Bad neighborhoods with cricket wireless stores and fried chicken joints.

It's a goddamn travesty. Open your eyes and look around you. Look at the bus stops. Look at the people working at the fast food joints. The middle class hasn't gotten a raise in what? 35 years?

It's a ****ing disgrace.
06-30-2017 , 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot
75% of the population that voted. Obviously that was implied because everyone knows only 50% of the total population voted.

I'll make sure and spell things out slowly and deliberately from now on for you
Thanks.
06-30-2017 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
I'd argue against this vehemently. The middle class has gotten absolutely crushed. Globalist policies have been great for people like me. The investor/professional class has done awesome. High skilled labor? You have it all. Rising 401k and investments, rising house values, you have healthcare and job security. The only thing you really worry about is college tuition, but you plan that out and save.

Yeah. If you're an engineer and you marry a nurse when you guys are 26 years old, have 2 kids and live in a nice neighborhood? Yep. America is great.

Now go through the same exercise with a guy working construction making 18 dollars an hour married to a secretary making 17 dollars an hour. How have globalist policies helped them? If they lived in an ok neighborhood before they got pushed out due to the rising rents in cities across the country. Job security? Lol. 401k? Please. Healthcare? Hopefully one of them has benefits, but it probably doesn't even cover dental. Save to buy a house? Out of the question, when it's 300k to even start to find something decent. College? Lol, yeah, ok.

I went to a matinee a few weeks to watch alien covenant and somehow managed to spend 25 bucks. Christ, a cheesesteak is 10 dollars now. 10 dollars!

I really think many of you fail to see how stressful and hard it is for middle class people to make it. They are under siege in every category. Food, energy costs, schooling, insurance. Everything is a goddamn fortune these days. And what did the middle class get? Bad neighborhoods with cricket wireless stores and fried chicken joints.

It's a goddamn travesty. Open your eyes and look around you. Look at the bus stops. Look at the people working at the fast food joints. The middle class hasn't gotten a raise in what? 35 years?

It's a ****ing disgrace.
More low-income people than not think that free trade has helped their financial situation; this is also true of the total population of the US.

07-01-2017 , 01:23 AM
I'll admit that's disturbing. I'll work on it when I'm sober.
07-01-2017 , 01:37 AM
Have we talked about the recent WSJ story in this forum at all yet? Is it a nothingburger and/or fake news?

WSJ is, irritatingly, the most paywalled news site on the web as far as I can tell, so I still haven't read the original article, just what everyone else has been saying about it.
07-01-2017 , 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Have we talked about the recent WSJ story in this forum at all yet? Is it a nothingburger and/or fake news?

WSJ is, irritatingly, the most paywalled news site on the web as far as I can tell, so I still haven't read the original article, just what everyone else has been saying about it.
Links from Twitter still work:



https://twitter.com/shaneharris/stat...36545601748999

Last edited by Original Position; 07-01-2017 at 02:25 AM.
07-01-2017 , 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position
Links from Twitter still work:



https://twitter.com/shaneharris/stat...36545601748999
Dude. Can you stop spamming the forum with your Twitter idiocy?

Wtf now? Can the mods do something about his constant tweets?

      
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