I think Trump should fire Jeff Sessions and appoint an AG who will continue the Obama administration DOJ's emphasis on criminal justice reform through the Office of Civil Rights. The AG should also reverse Sessions' enthusiasm for maximum sentencing and the prosecution of the drug war. We should pursue a reduction in incarceration levels.

I think you should support economic policies and programs meant to reduce economic stratification and poverty. That should certainly begin with opposition to cutting taxes on the very wealthy and paying for it by removing funding for universal healthcare (i.e you should oppose AHCA).

Social programs for universal healthcare and education (and perhaps others) are an important part of this, but more basically I think our taxation and spending schemes should be more progressive and redistributive, with the goal of offsetting the fact that the benefits of globalization and technology over the last several decades have overwhelmingly gone to the very wealthy, while everyone else falls behind. I think we should spend less money on the military in order to support these goals.

There's probably other more specific actions that I would support, but those are the two biggest components of the kind of policy plan I support. Criminal justice reform is more explicitly focused on racial discrimination, but I imagine that politically tenable and desirable solutions to economic stratification should be more universal, and should benefit the poor white people in the rural areas I've lived my whole life as well as poor black people. With the caveat that it's important to make sure that these programs don't become racially discriminatory in implementation, a problem that we've seen more than once (the GI bill and medicaid expansion, to mention two examples).

Absolutely. One of the more depressing arguments we see in political discussion is the claim that no-one changes their views. Its quite normal for people to change a lot over time.

In the education system? Absolutely Asians are overly represented. I'm unsure how this is even up for discussion. You are saying you are unaware of discrimination towards Asians at the ivy league schools, or the racial statistics when the yearly testing is done for placement to the best public schools in New York? Or just the general over representation in all of higher learning?

Are you saying you're unaware of all this?
Ok, I will admit there very well may be some bias between groups, but I don't think it's nearly as big an issue as you do. We can disagree here, I can't make you believe it's not a big deal and I don't think you're going to convince me it is. Thats fine.

I'm not talking about those people at all. I'm talking about Asians that immigrated in the 70s after restrictions were lifted, who were uneducated and poor. I'm talking about their children. Me, and almost every Asian I know who's my age. And, I'm unsure if you're correct about "most" in the US are economically advantaged. Please show me some statistics on this.
This may actually​ be true, as far as that specific group is concerned. They are lumped into the "Asian" category, even though I only think of Asians being East Asian.
Yep, there is some truth here. In many ways people despise "thugs" and "thuggish" behavior. That translates into disproportionately disliking blacks who may portray that behavior/persona, I agree. But I also would point out people like Aaron Hernandez is almost universally hated due to his behavior, not his race. People don't like thugs or people who act like thugs, I'm with you.
I disagree that the left, in general, blames black failure on white racism. It's a constant theme. The left and the right want the same things - success in the black community. I've said it before and I'll say it again - black failure isn't a black problem, it's an American problem and it needs to be addressed. I grow tired and angry watching Black kids dying in the streets and throwing their lives away. It drives me crazy. What I don't do is blame white people for that.

He's not saying that people are racist in a discriminatory way, though they may also occasionally be. The point he's making is that people should be aware of how peoples attitudes on race explain differences in outcomes.
And this is important because there are clearly a lot of people who think the failure of blacks is on account of THEIR culture or THEIR lack of work ethic, or THEIR lack of native judgment (depending on which trump appointee were talking about)

Example - If you look at east indian communities you'll see an overwhelming tendency for successful men to take fairer skinned wives. Sexual preference? Sure. But that preference is at least in part internalized from having their entire lives seen light skinned people be important, educated and civilized and dark skinned people being the brutish laborers - both in the media, and in life. And even though the caste system isn't as explicit as it once was it's still a part of the social consciousness. Do you not see that this also takes place in the US to some extent? Do you see how those preferences impact the average outcome for each successive generation?

The statistics you are requesting are in the link to the post I provided, and to which I've linked you no less than twice previously :P

The argument isn't that people don't change their views over time, it's that they don't change their views as a result of a debate on an internet forum.

My God.

I dont think it's just that at all but even so, it's simply implausible that when people discuss politics that it somehow doesn't quite significantly influence how their views change over time.

What I think frustrates people is that they don't see people change their minds on the specific point being argued about - that's a very hard thing for most people to do (or admit to doing even if they do it).

BTW we now have a 'discussion about discussion' thread to help contain this long running (and imo interesting and important) conversation. Be good if we all continued the debate there.

What? Did I say something wrong? Did I say something offensive?

I'm confused.

Addendum: I like Obama's approach from this interview with Ta-Nehesi Coates:

Perhaps I should have phrased it more carefully and said "people don't announce/admit they've changed their views as a result of a debate on an internet forum".

You explained away racial discrimination as a dislike of "thuggish" behavior, which is enormously prejudicial.

I agree with that but it's also not remotely important compared to people actually changing their views. It's even more the case then you state because it's common for people to not even realise they have changed their views.

take it to the discussion about discussions thread, hoss.

Why are you assuming race has something to do with it? People universally despise Aaron Hernandez for acting like a straight up street thug. He looks like a light skinned Latino male to me.

I've met thugs of every race. I don't like them. Neither does anyone else I interact with. I have about 5 close black friends I see constantly. None of them are thugs and they hate thugs also.

What's the issue ?

I am assuming race has something to do with your response because the post you quoted and responded to was discussing racial inequality and discrimination. Also, you wrote "That translates into disproportionately disliking blacks..."

Now, perhaps you weren't actually following the conversation, but rather you just say random things that cross your mind. I actually don't have a good counter-argument to that, but I don't know how else to make sense of what you wrote other than as an attempt to explain prejudice and discrimination directed towards black people as an expression of dislike towards thuggery.

well-named: black ppl have been discriminated against for a long time.
wil: ya, that is bc ppl dont like thugs.
everyone: woah wil cmon.
wil: whats the problem? I wasnt talking about race.

Reid Lockhart did it in real time over the transgender issue in this very forum. I was astonished. Virtue signalling at its best.

No one likes thugs. Thugs are disproportionately black, because the areas that type of behavior is embraced the most are inner cities, which are disproportionately black. Some people think that's racism. I do not.

Why do you think that is?

I mean, I think it is pretty clear that he is saying that black ppl deserve to be discriminated against bc some or many of them appear to be thugs.

its truly an unprecedented idea to actually announce. even for wil.

I wonder what he'd make of someone who advocates sexually assaulting women and punching small kids. Thug or not thug?

Not thug if not black is my guess.

cultural appropriation alert! the real thuggees from india would like their culture back.

I think it's self evident. Do you actually disagree with what I'm saying? No one is going to hire a thug. No one wants their daughters dating thugs and no one wants to go to places where there are a large presence of thugs.

It's really that simple. If any of you disagree, I think you are absolutely delusional. My wife's family disliked me for a few years when they thought I was thuggish.

I've never said anything even remotely close to this. But it's exactly the type of talk I'd expect out of someone like you. Hey, at least you're consistent.