President Trump - Page 105 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

And you've never had to make that choice, of course. What would you do, in their shoes? Bravely stay in El Salvador where you won't be subject to deportation and choose to give less opportunity to your children? Is that the kind of father you'd choose to be?

03-03-2017 , 06:29 PM

#2602

wil318466

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Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Yeah, but you live in a first world country with access to education, jobs, clean water, an affordable place to live, there's no rampant warfare going on in the U.S., etc. Not everybody is in the same situation as you, in fact by living in the U.S. you're one of the luckiest people alive. The vast majority of people in the world are in a much different situation. So, no. It's certainly not that simple.

If you were located in El Salvador, the country with the highest murder rate in the world, and your kids were trapped with you there, do you think you might see the situation differently?

If I was poor and living in a dangerous area in the united States and thought I had no future here, do you think I should sneak into Norway or Germany for a better future for my family?

Lol, please. I don't get to make up my own rules bro. There's a process, and I'd go through it the right way. I wouldn't just break the law and hope for a good result. It's foolish to think that's a good strategy.

03-03-2017 , 06:30 PM

#2603

einbert

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That's not what I asked. You can assume it's almost impossible for a working class person to legally migrate here from El Salvador, because it is.

03-03-2017 , 06:31 PM

#2604

einbert

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Quote:

I wouldn't just break the law and hope for a good result. It's foolish to think that's a good strategy.

Of course you would, if you thought that was your best/only chance to survive.

03-03-2017 , 06:35 PM

#2605

wil318466

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Your logic here escapes me. You could justify almost anything under this type of thinking. Should people be allowed to loot a business or rob people because their families don't have enough food or money?

The father I choose to be is the one who doesn't put myself in bad situations that negatively affects my loved ones. Call me crazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Of course you would, if you thought that was your best/only chance to survive.

Oh I absolutely would not.

03-03-2017 , 06:37 PM

#2606

einbert

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Quote:

03-03-2017 , 06:37 PM

#2607

aoFrantic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

If you were Jewish in Nazi Germany, you believe that escaping to a different country was wrong because you don't get to make up your own rules?

03-03-2017 , 06:38 PM

#2608

wil318466

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Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

That's not what I asked. You can assume it's almost impossible for a working class person to legally migrate here from El Salvador, because it is.

So anyone in the world living in a bad situation should just flee to the united States and sneak in?

This logic is absurd. Literally billions of people have it worse than we do. They should just show up and hope for the best?

03-03-2017 , 06:39 PM

#2609

aoFrantic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

That's literally how your country was founded, so shrug?

03-03-2017 , 06:39 PM

#2610

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

The father I choose to be is the one who doesn't put myself in bad situations that negatively affects my loved ones. Call me crazy.

So that's a yes, you're staying in El Salvador?

I'm not talking about justifying **** or whatever, I'm just asking what you would do and what kind of opportunity you would provide your children if you didn't have the good fortune to be born in the United States or if you didn't get lucky and get approved for immigration the legal way.

03-03-2017 , 06:40 PM

#2611

wil318466

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

If you were Jewish in Nazi Germany, you believe that escaping to a different country was wrong because you don't get to make up your own rules?

I'd flee the country and do everything I could to try to go through a process of becoming a citizen of another country. What I wouldn't do is just stay somewhere illegally forever and hope for the best.

03-03-2017 , 06:42 PM

#2612

wil318466

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

I would do what I thought was best. If you're asking me if I'd illegally enter a country, knowing what could happen, that answer is absolutely not. I wouldn't sneak into Canada if I thought our lives would be better there. Would you?

03-03-2017 , 06:42 PM

#2613

aoFrantic

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Wil, I know you don't know a lot about history of current immigration laws, but in Nazi Germany or current day El Salvador or Syria, these people can't stay in their home countries, apply to a safe one and have a great chance of survival. You should really look this up.

03-03-2017 , 06:43 PM

#2614

wil318466

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

That's literally how your country was founded, so shrug?

Well then I think we have a very different viewpoint on how the country was founded.

03-03-2017 , 06:44 PM

#2615

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

I wouldn't sneak into Canada if I thought our lives would be better there.

Wow, pretty savage for your kids, I guess it's lucky for them they were already born into a good situation and didn't have to rely on their parents to fight for one.

03-03-2017 , 06:46 PM

#2616

chezlaw

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

No, it's really not. Why do you consider it so extreme? The dude isn't supposed to be here. A friend of mine was from Ireland and shouldn't have been here, he was 7 years over his allowance. They deported him on the spot at the airport. Shrug. It happens. He knew he was wrong and he accepted it.

I dont blame people for seeking a better life by moving - at worst it's a small bad thing to do. I dont think the fact that people know what they are doing is against the rules means that they deserve whatever we do to them as punishment

03-03-2017 , 06:47 PM

#2617

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

That's not what I asked. You can assume it's almost impossible for a working class person to legally migrate here from El Salvador, because it is.

Citation needed

03-03-2017 , 06:49 PM

#2618

wil318466

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Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Wow, pretty savage for your kids, I guess it's lucky for them they were already born into a good situation and didn't have to rely on their parents to fight for one.

There's nothing savage about it. My kids have two sets of grandparents who came to this country and did what was asked of them in order to do so. My kids have parents who tried to make a better life for themselves and their loved ones. My kids have families that follow laws and try to provide a better life for them.

Why you think following laws is optional if you don't like your current situation is bizarre to me.

03-03-2017 , 06:49 PM

#2619

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Who should have he discretion to decide what the "punishment" should be?

03-03-2017 , 06:49 PM

#2620

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

If you were Jewish in Nazi Germany, you believe that escaping to a different country was wrong because you don't get to make up your own rules?

That's exactly right under wil's way of thinking.

03-03-2017 , 06:49 PM

#2621

aoFrantic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

That's literally how your country was founded, so shrug?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

Well then I think we have a very different viewpoint on how the country was founded.

Why do you think the English colonists left their country to sail to America?

Wil, according to your logic the underground railroad was wrong. What is the difference between the underground railroad and your insistence of following the laws?

03-03-2017 , 06:50 PM

#2622

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Wow, pretty savage for your kids, I guess it's lucky for them they were already born into a good situation and didn't have to rely on their parents to fight for one.

Expecting chez to jump in here and remind you that involving family members is off limits.

03-03-2017 , 06:52 PM

#2623

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Chez, you act as if we are throwing them in Gitmo and blasting Metallica 24/7 into their jail cells. If you shouldn't be somewhere you know you may be displaced. Why are the rules different for other people?

I can't just pick up and go to Dubai and stay forever, can I? You'd feel bad for me if they told me to gtfo?

03-03-2017 , 06:52 PM

#2624

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aoFrantic

Slavery was also legal. I guess slaves should have just buckled down and worked hard instead of trying to escape, under Wil's logic.

03-03-2017 , 06:53 PM

#2625

BroadwaySushy

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Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 3,237

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Wow, pretty savage for your kids, I guess it's lucky for them they were already born into a good situation and didn't have to rely on their parents to fight for one.

Just open the borders and let everyone in. Is that what you guys want?

I mean, where do you draw the line?

There's probably billions of people in third world countries who would love to come and live in the U.S.

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