President Trump - Page 58 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Obama is clearly anti Semitic in my opinion. Read the article. He's friends with people who have ties to Hamas. He could be considered the biggest supporter of terrorism given the Iran nuclear deal. 150 billion dollars worth of support to a country that chants death to the US and Israel. His non veto of the racist UN resolution. Etc etc.

Not true.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...n-150-billion/

Quote:

Okay, $150 billion in exchange for nada does sound like a pretty terrible deal — but is that actually what was agreed upon?

According to all the experts we talked with, Trump’s claim is inaccurate.

"The best I can say is that he got the name of the country right. Almost nothing else in there is right," said Michael Malloy, an expert on economic sanctions at the University of the Pacific.

No hundred-billion giveaways

Trump’s statement makes it sound like we’re cutting Iran a $150 billion check. In reality, the money is already Iran’s to begin with, just frozen under the many economic sanctions levied against the country.

Restrictions on Iranian assets — such as the $1.9 billion the National Iranian Oil Company was restricted from collecting from Shell for delivering crude supplies — began to thaw this year. Per the Iran deal, nuclear inspectors verified in January that Tehran was doing enough to curb its nuclear program, prompting the United States and other countries to lift the sanctions.

Just how much money was being held up?

Experts say $150 billion is the high end of estimates or, as Malloy put it, "what it could possibly be in the broadest imagination." Most peg the the total value of Iranian assets at around $100 billion, but Iran probably still won’t be able to access all of it.

The deal only releases assets frozen because of Iran’s nuclear program. Assets blocked because of other sanctions (on terrorism, human rights, and missile technology) won’t change as a result of the agreement.

Also, Iran won’t suddenly have all the assets at its disposal because some of it is tied up in debts. For example, about $20 billion is obligated to China, which worked around the sanctions to finance infrastructure projects in Iran.

The actual amount available to Iran is about $60 billion, estimates Garbis Iradian, chief economist at the Institute of International Finance. U.S. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew pinned it at $56 billion, while Iranian officials say $35 billion, according to Richard Nephew, an expert on economic sanctions at Columbia University’s Center on Global Energy Policy.

In return, no bomb

While the United States doesn’t get a cash bonus for lifting sanctions, Trump’s claim that we got "nothing" in return misses the point of the deal: blocking Iran from building a nuclear bomb.

"We got major restrictions and intrusive transparency on Iran's nuclear program. Beyond being not ‘nothing,’ this is the entire reason why we put the sanctions on in the first place," Nephew said. "Reasonable people may disagree whether we got enough for the sanctions relief, but it wasn't nothing."

"There’s a long list (of things we got), such that even the Israeli intelligence community has concluded that, for the duration of the deal, Iran will not acquire a nuclear weapon," said George Perkovich, an expert on nuclear strategy at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Under the deal, Iran agreed to lose 97 percent of its stockpile of enriched uranium and give up 14,000 of its 20,000 centrifuges, which are needed to enrich uranium. It also agreed to curb production of plutonium (the other element that can be used to build a bomb) and dismantle its one plutonium reactor.

To make sure Iran holds up its end of the bargain, the deal also permitted international inspectors to "implement continuous monitoring." (What that means and whether it’s enough are up for debate.) In other words, said Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Jim Walsh, we got Iran to nip its nuclear ambitions in the bud before the cash was released.

The UN resolution is not racist. If Israel continues to build settlements, a two-state solution is untenable. The UN resolution was correct and Obama was correct to stand by it--that's not anti-semitism.

02-22-2017 , 12:42 PM

#1427

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky

is that what einbert was saying? i thought he was saying you are racist if you even suggest the problem is not as big as he thinks it is. that made me curious how he feels about black people with a similar opinion.

I suppose it's possible to innocently minimize the extent of racism if you live in a small town and aren't paying attention to national news, but I'd be more inclined to believe you are in denial about your own racist feelings if continued to push that view on this forum.

02-22-2017 , 12:42 PM

#1428

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky

I never said that, please don't put words in my mouth. Deal with my actual arguments and not imaginary ones that you made up in your head and we'll have a much easier time having a two-way conversation.

02-22-2017 , 12:44 PM

#1429

einbert

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This is one problem why it's very difficult to have conversations with "conservatives"--they are never intellectually honest. That means being honest about the other side's opinions as well as being honest with yourself about your own opinion. As a result, most people just don't even bother talking to conservatives any more, and who can blame them.

02-22-2017 , 12:50 PM

#1430

einbert

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Anyway, if you want to understand why your black friend might believe that racism doesn't exist or isn't a major problem in America, consider this. White supremacy runs so deep in this country, any person of color who's willing to deny the fabric of white supremacy can get a very big, very loud platform because they are the perfect tools of white supremacy. The people at the top of the hierarchy get way more mileage out of Omarosa than they do out of Mike Huckabee. And there will never be any end to the incentives for people of color (normal people, not just those with a huge media platform too, because those people tend to work with white people and their bosses tend to be white people) to adopt these kind of ideas in order to push their way into what they see as the upper eschelons of the socioeconomic ladder. The higher a person is on that ladder, the more and more pressure is on that person to push these notions of "colorblindness" that actually enable and empower white supremacist hierarchies in the United States.

02-22-2017 , 12:54 PM

#1431

mongidig

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Not true.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...n-150-billion/

The UN resolution is not racist. If Israel continues to build settlements, a two-state solution is untenable. The UN resolution was correct and Obama was correct to stand by it--that's not anti-semitism.

20+ resolutions against Israel, 1 against Syria, 1 against Russia.

No mention of Palestines non recognition of Israel and threats to kill Israelis. No mention of Hamas.

Think before you speak

02-22-2017 , 12:57 PM

#1432

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

20+ resolutions against Israel, 1 against Syria, 1 against Russia.

No mention of Palestines non recognition of Israel and threats to kill Israelis. No mention of Hamas.

Think before you speak

Since you're so concerned about anti-semitism, having Bannon in the White House is a huge problem that you are concerned about right?

02-22-2017 , 12:57 PM

#1433

einbert

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How Steve Bannon and Breitbart News Can Be Pro-Israel — and Anti-Semitic at the Same Time
http://forward.com/news/israel/35440...-semitic-at-t/

02-22-2017 , 12:59 PM

#1434

einbert

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By the way you keep saying Obama has ties to Hamas, let's see some proof. Post some credible citations if you're going to make such a claim.

02-22-2017 , 01:13 PM

#1435

goofyballer

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einbert why even entertain mongo's idiotic assertion that political opposition to Israel and anti-Semitism are the same thing? Dude's whole argument is "wahhhhhh Iran".

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

The hypocrocy of the left makes it hard to take them serious. You're all over Trump for being anti semitic yet you've said nothing about Obama who is arguably the most anti semitic President ever.

Trumps son in law and daughter are Jewish. The leader of Israel loves Trump. The people of Israel love Trump....and you call him anti semitic?

http://lidblog.com/the-obama-adminis...showing-again/

Your source is a blog that is currently, in February 2017, running hit pieces on Obama and calling liberals "crazy".

Let's ask an actual authority on the subject!

Anne Frank Center slams Trump: ‘Do not make us Jews settle for crumbs of condescension’

Quote:

President Trump spoke out Tuesday against anti-Semitic threats, but his words were not enough for the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect, whose executive director called the president’s acknowledgment of anti-Semitism a “Band-Aid on the cancer of Antisemitism that has infected his own Administration.”

Quote:

On Tuesday morning, Steven Goldstein, executive director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect, blasted Trump in a Facebook post.

“His statement today is a pathetic asterisk of condescension after weeks in which he and his staff have committed grotesque acts and omissions reflecting Antisemitism, yet day after day have refused to apologize and correct the record,” Goldstein said in the statement. “Make no mistake: The Antisemitism coming out of this Administration is the worst we have ever seen from any Administration.”

LOL mongo

02-22-2017 , 01:17 PM

#1436

goofyballer

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LOL mongo's favorite blog there also has an article suggesting "insane" Californians DESERVE natural disasters, because they believed global warming and now look at all this rain!

Mongo is such a perfect avatar for the new know-nothing conservative party.

02-22-2017 , 01:31 PM

#1437

DisGunBGud

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Mongooooooo

02-22-2017 , 02:34 PM

#1438

bahbahmickey

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Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

^ yeah, this, though I wouldn't be surprised if bahbah thinks some % of that 100 is black people wearing their pants too loose.

No I don't think sagging ones britches is to blame at all. I am shocked a liberal will try to project an opinion on a conservative that makes them sound racist.

02-22-2017 , 02:36 PM

#1439

bahbahmickey

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Quote:

Originally Posted by prana

Bah bah a long time ago you claimed you couldn't be racist because no one chimed in to back letsgsmbool. I was too lazy to log in and post. Everyone thinks what he thought. Later.

He is a clown. I don't care what he thinks about anyone.

Any evidence to support your claim that I'm racist?

02-22-2017 , 02:44 PM

#1440

spanktehbadwookie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bahbahmickey

No I don't think sagging ones britches is to blame at all. I am shocked a liberal will try to project an opinion on a conservative that makes them sound racist.

The snakes are already out in the conservative grass. You wanna call them sticks, look out for "stick-bites".

02-22-2017 , 02:47 PM

#1441

juan valdez

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,686

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Since you're so concerned about anti-semitism, having Bannon in the White House is a huge problem that you are concerned about right?

the problem with crying wolf is obvious. its been brought up as a massive problem on the left countless times. if you disagree with someone on the left your ideas don't get debated, you get labelled

your assumptions about bannon may be based on something reasonable but probably not. i mean jewish people that worked for him and will publicly say hes an ahole but dont think theres evidence hes racist

you seem far too certain and overconfident at best. with the reputation of left, its likely youre just confidently uninformed and parroting hysterical nonsense

02-22-2017 , 02:54 PM

#1442

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by juan valdez

if you disagree with someone on the left your ideas don't get debated, you get labelled

In the same post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by juan valdez

with the reputation of left, its likely youre just confidently uninformed and parroting hysterical nonsense

These people are incapable of recognizing, let alone confronting, their own logical inconsistency. Just look at this ****!

02-22-2017 , 03:25 PM

#1443

juan valdez

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,686

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

In the same post:

These people are incapable of recognizing, let alone confronting, their own logical inconsistency. Just look at this ****!

posting actual contrary evidence in response to someone throwing around racism accusations and then suggesting its likely due to them just being uninformed isnt even in the same galaxy as flippantly throwing around racism accusations with confidence

the fact you felt the need to even chime in at this lol example of hypocrisy is just a demonstration that you are blindly detached

its the same thing i just saw in the echo chamber forum that received lol praise from the poster wondering if it was the greatest or second greatest thought ever typed out on a forum and then the other posters gobbled it up. talking about hypocrisy in the defense of milos free speech and then not having his back with pedo controversy is either totally dishonest or intellectually ******ed. id quote it, but i cant

02-22-2017 , 03:29 PM

#1444

goofyballer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by juan valdez

"The left labels people"
...
"You're a lefty so you're probably ..."

LOL

02-22-2017 , 03:47 PM

#1445

juan valdez

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,686

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

"The left labels people"
...
"You're a lefty so you're probably ..."

LOL

you come across as someone hyperventilating in to a paper bag. im serious. the live feed of you over reacting to everything trump related is coming across unhealthy. this is another example.

the left does label people. im quoting a claim that someone is racist, with no evidence. it was confidently stated....um is he on the left? did he make an accusation of someone being racist? did he provide any evidence to back up his claim? did you provide any evidence to back up his claim? how many posts can we manage to read in this forum where someone isnt being labelled a bigot or racist? how long can you watch the left biased news with out accusations or labels being thrown around? is this accusation that the left throws around labels constantly in any way controversial to you? in my "hypocrisy" did i provide any sort of evidence or counter argument unlike the person making accusations?

if youre so passionately against racism and racists then maybe you should consider that accusing people of those things is serious. tossing around accusations falsely makes you an ahole. maybe the reason the morally superior and caring people on left throw around these labels so loosely is because they can't articulate a strong argument against the people they disagree with. they come up with labels or sometimes "LOL"

02-22-2017 , 03:59 PM

#1446

spanktehbadwookie

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trump's scheduled racism time for Native American grab and removal is almost here. 2 minute warning IMO.

02-22-2017 , 07:23 PM

#1447

kypreanus

banned

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 693

"The fascist Hitler is still in power" meme is still alive strong.

Is she one of the active The Resistance members here? Try to count how many times Hitler and fascist is mentioned.

https://youtu.be/aVcFJ_zY6g4?t=1164

She kind of sums up the hysteria regarding Trump.

02-22-2017 , 07:44 PM

#1448

13ball

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Obama...could be considered the biggest supporter of terrorism given the Iran nuclear deal. 150 billion dollars worth of support to a country that chants death to the US and Israel.

Wouldn't he be tied for "biggest supporter of terrorism" with the other countries that agree to the Iran Deal?

But in any case, The Iran Deal didn't give any "support" to Iran. It returned Iranian funds that were seized because of their nuclear program. And that wasn't $150 billion, since we've frozen Iranian assets over terrorism.

Quote:

The actual amount available to Iran is about $60 billion, estimates Garbis Iradian, chief economist at the Institute of International Finance. U.S. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew pinned it at $56 billion, while Iranian officials say $35 billion, according to Richard Nephew, an expert on economic sanctions at Columbia University’s Center on Global Energy Policy.

So Iranian funds were frozen to discourage them from continuing their nuclear program. When we reached a deal on that program, we released the frozen funds. Your characterization is completely dishonest.