Ultimately it's up to the moderators to determine what kind of forum they want, and I think the answer is...the one we have now. It doesn't matter how many posters engage in good faith efforts to have actual discussion, there are too many that don't and have louder voices.

There are not enough well thought out posters on the conservative side. There are a few but mostly it's insults and emptyness.

damn I didn't know the word cuck hurt you guys this badly

Like the above.

You already know what my opinion is, but for everyone else: I disagree. I think it's up to the posters to determine what kind of forum they want, at least within the site rules. The entire reason the rules were relaxed is because that's what a fairly large majority of posters wanted. And I think it's pretty hard to run a forum successfully against the desires of most of the participants. Obviously I didn't go along with it because I was looking forward to getting a lot more one-liners in. I think most of the posting in this forum is pretty ****ty. If the posters change their mind about what they want, I'll be happy to see the moderation change too.

Others may disagree with my contention that it's up to the posters, of course, it's an opinion and not a fact. But I feel like the role of moderator should involve facilitating the forum the participants want, not dictating it to them. Some of this has to do with the fact that moderators are chosen from participants themselves. If 2+2 as a business entity wants to say "the forum shall be this way, and not that way", then that would also be fine with me, but is a little different.

Maybe you're both right. I don't know. And maybe I'll eventually give up and go away. I dunno.

I'll try this though. Let's take DoOrDoNot as an example. (Hope you don't mind DoOrDoNot.) He came in here, posted some slams and some content. Not going to say Goofy started it, I don't know, but Goofy ripped into him. Calling him dumb, among other things. DODN calls people dumb as well (not saying he was first or responding, don't know, doesn't really matter).

Here's the thing, based on DODN's later posts, I can see that he has good stuff to add to this conversation. Goofy does too of course, but now, instead, we have this **** show.

My question is, if Goofy hadn't done that. If he had nicely engaged DODN, told DODN why he's wrong, would we have a better conversation? Let's assume that DODN started it, came in here swinging. Could Goofy have easily turned it around? I think the answer is yes. I see tons of turning points every day. Someone first says that's dumb. The other person has to decide whether to escalate insults or have a conversation.

I could be naïve.

I understand moving these posts to the moderation thread, but I also think it's better that everyone see them. Oh well.

You are one of the few who give thught out post.
Meh he slang insults right away with me. **** him. Even held off a bit at first and still the insults came.

This is the Internet. People have a much rougher way of talking to others than in real life, apart from well named. The lack of visible clues makes empathy much rarer.

+1

But even DODN gave thought out posts. You probably can't see it because of the slamming he did. The same thing happens from the other side. Goofy posts lots of cool ****. He also posts lots of slams. Lots. If you're on the right, it is easy to think all his posts are trash. You know why, there is a ton of trash in his posts. There is also a ton of good stuff that half the people on the right cannot read. They're too pissed off cuz he said mean things to them on purpose.

I'm using Goofy cuz he's a well respected poster, and the example works well.

Now take it from the other side. DODN is new here, I believe. He posts some trash talk. Everyone on the left cannot hear anything else he says. You can't even hear the opposite side trash talker if they are well respected and been around forever. How can you hear a new guy trash talker from the other side? Most people can't.


And me.

No I noticed his content and gave a few free passes. But once someone shows they have no interest in giving respect I no longer have interest in putting much effort into content so...let the snark and petty bickering begin. Each their own it's not even really a complaint. It is what it is.

Before I ever even engaged with him, it's clear what his M.O. was in this forum. This is where he first started posting here:

microbet calls his post "ignorant" which may be slightly disrespectful but it's an attack on the post, not a person. DoDN responds reasonably with a little helping of the typical lazy "liberals see racism everywhere" stuff we've come to largely expect from conservatives. But then, batair joins, perfectly reasonably:

DoDN does not respond with an equal amount of respect:

batair still responds pretty reasonably:

And DoDN comes back with a longer reply with some content, but also this:

A few posts later, with some attacks on his posts but still not on his person, DoDN has devolved into this:


So before I ever engaged with this guy, these are his posts that I'm reading, obviously he's a partisan hack clown here to attack others just like most of the rest of this forum (myself included). What's the point of giving someone like that the benefit of the doubt? It'd be different if he came in here posting like you, but things didn't exactly happen that way. It's not my job to try to reform him into a decent poster, it's his choice how he presents himself here and I'll respond in kind.

I think the forum is in equilibrium to how the world is now. Liberals hate Conservatives and Conservatives hate Liberals. Except for me, I love everyone.

What happens is liberals act out on their pent up hatred from years of victimhood. I'm pretty sure most of you come from one of the protected groups. Maybe a few of you are close to somebody who is. Most were born into this and have learned to hate it's perceived oppressors. Very few of you are able to let go and live in the moment. This anger is then projected onto the Conservative posters who are here simply to discuss some politics. It's very similar to what is going on with the Palestinians and Israelis. If you take a closer look, you will see that Conservatives are responding to the attacks from the liberals. Therefore, I would recommend that the liberal side dial back the anger. Observe instead of judge. Without attacks there will not be counter attacks. Only then will we be able to have positive discussions pertaining to politics.

Fair enough, Goofy. I read those posts back then, and didn't put them together as the same poster.

I will only say that he came into the forum most likely knowing that any conservative will get ripped. (And probably true for most liberals too.) I waded through tons of **** to get where I am, not that I'm sure I'm anywhere, yet.

How do you want the forum to be?

would you object if we were a bit less lite touch on the LC snark & bickering?

Nah I have respectful conversation with conservatives every day. Even online if they are not scum like you I'll show respect.

Personally i like to know if someone thinks I'm a asshat fool. But the forum being more tight on that does not bother me either way.

It's matter of how frequentlydo you need to be reminded?

I think we can be lite touch on a few LC personal attacks following a post with some content (that is what posters want I believe) but also step in when it's just becoming the bickering and same old personal battles which most posters don't seem to want in practice.

I preferred the previous moderation when there was intervention rather than letting the forum turn into a pile of steaming ****. I understand well named's stance that this is what the majority wanted, though. Democracy at work!

There is no way to "respectfully" argue with someone who calls you a racist or a bigot.

The leftists created this situation. So be it.

Things have gotten worse since you showed up. You're a net negative. Not as bad as jalfrezi but close.

It's not a democracy. We are listening though, so what regular posters (say they) want is shaping the forum

Political discussion where both sides are so polarized as in American politics, is never going to be polite and respectful. It's just not going to happen. The differences are too extreme, the divide is too big. Wishing it was all nice and polite is just naive imo.

'Nice & polite' is a parody.

The somewhat open question is where we draw the line on engagement to noise.