Partisan Shifts in Views of NSA Surveillance Programs - Page 2 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

or maybe the democrats thought surveillance programs dont go far enough in 06, whereas the republicans thought that's as far as surveillance should go, no further

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06-12-2013 , 11:36 PM

#27

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spladle

No, you don't think hypocrisy merits condemnation, or no, you don't NOT think hypocrisy merits condemnation? Either way, why (not)?

Yeah I agree you worded your question awkwardly. I do not think hypocrisy warrants condemnation.

Questions for you, have you ever been a hypocrite?

Do you think at anytime in the future you'll be a hypocrite?

06-13-2013 , 12:09 AM

#28

JayTeeMe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

yes and yes. Hopefully people will call me out when i am so i can introspect.

06-13-2013 , 12:14 AM

#29

Spladle

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Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,526

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

I do not think hypocrisy warrants condemnation.

Why not?

I think most forms of insincere and dishonest behavior should be discouraged. Shaming hypocrites seems to me to be a worthwhile way of doing so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

Questions for you, have you ever been a hypocrite?

Do you think at anytime in the future you'll be a hypocrite?

I cannot recall ever having behaved hypocritically, nor do I expect to behave hypocritically in the future.

If I were a willful and active hypocrite, how would that fact influence your opinion of my statement about how we ought to treat hypocrites? How do you think that fact ought to influence said opinion?

06-13-2013 , 12:30 AM

#30

Cotton Hill

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There are tens of millions of people in this country who's beliefs fluctuate based purely on whether the dude in the White House has an R or a D after his name.

06-13-2013 , 12:45 AM

#31

adios

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spladle

Why not?

I think most forms of insincere and dishonest behavior should be discouraged. Shaming hypocrites seems to me to be a worthwhile way of doing so.

I cannot recall ever having behaved hypocritically, nor do I expect to behave hypocritically in the future.

If I were a willful and active hypocrite, how would that fact obinfluence your opinion of my statement about how we tought to treat hypocrites? How do you think that fact ought to influence said opinion?

Haha troll on dude. When you make a claim that you've never been a hypocrite that tells me all I need to know about you. Massive goal post shift too "discouraged" from "condemnation" and from "being a hypocrite" to a "willfull and active hypocrite." I also note your use of the word shame. Why do feel the need to shame? To me this demonstates a great deal of arrogance. Disingenuous, arrogant and judgemental at the same time lovely.

06-13-2013 , 01:40 AM

#32

Spladle

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Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,526

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

When you make a claim that you've never been a hypocrite that tells me all I need to know about you.

Does it suggest to you that I am a hypocrite? Do you agree, then, that it is a bad thing to be a hypocrite?

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

Massive goal post shift too "discouraged" from "condemnation" and from "being a hypocrite" to a "willfull and active hypocrite."

I apologize for the confusion my change in word choice caused. I think most forms of insincere and dishonest behavior should be condemned.

If I were a hypocrite, how would that fact influence your opinion of my statement about how we ought to treat hypocrites? How do you think that fact ought to influence said opinion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

I also note your use of the word shame. Why do feel the need to shame?

I feel no need to shame. I believe that people who behave badly should feel ashamed for doing so though. Do you not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

To me this demonstates a great deal of arrogance. Disingenuous, arrogant and judgemental at the same time lovely.

How do you think I have been disingenuous?

06-13-2013 , 05:22 AM

#33

Neil S

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Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 19,724

I hope that's true, that only a fifth of Republicans have flipped on this.

06-13-2013 , 08:28 AM

#34

seattlelou

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Why is it unreasonable on the fac, to change your opinion of these programs based upon who is the President?

Last edited by seattlelou; 06-13-2013 at 08:34 AM.

06-13-2013 , 09:44 AM

#35

Spladle

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil S

I hope that's true, that only a fifth of Republicans have flipped on this.

Closer to 1/4 than 1/5. But I like your attitude. I will try to adopt it.

06-13-2013 , 09:50 AM

#36

Spladle

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Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,526

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlelou

Why is it unreasonable on the fac, to change your opinion of these programs based upon who is the President?

Because the content of the programs in question is presumed not to have changed. Programs should be judged on their merits, not according to who is responsible for them.

Why is it unreasonable to change your opinion of what the best ice cream flavor is based upon who is the President?

06-13-2013 , 09:57 AM

#37

seattlelou

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spladle

If you are basing your outrage solely on the fact that now the USG and Verizon (or google, etc.) has your phone records then your ice cream analogy may be apt. I assume a lot of reasonable people don't worry they have this data in itself but rather worry about its potential misuse.

06-13-2013 , 10:19 AM

#38

Spladle

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Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,526

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlelou

I experience no outrage. What, pray tell, has left you with an impression to the contrary? I feel a twinge of sadness and despair when I ponder the inability of most people to rid themselves of bias.

I disagree that the people you describe can reasonably be labeled "reasonable."

06-13-2013 , 10:33 AM

#39

seattlelou

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spladle

I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote that but it sure sounds like I was. I was thinking of the reaction more generally. I am not thrilled with my post I should have worded it better and went with "If the polling participants support is based solely upon the..."

Of course reasonable is subjective and that assessment is mine.

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