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Old 02-13-2017, 02:41 PM   #376
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

I'd like to add that you never, ever see them admit they are wrong. That's a key element to this as well. Who cares if there are numerous citations showing that? Just either take a break from posting, or derail the conversation. Rinse and repeat.
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:07 PM   #377
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
I'd like to add that you never, ever see them admit they are wrong. That's a key element to this as well. Who cares if there are numerous citations showing that? Just either take a break from posting, or derail the conversation. Rinse and repeat.
What have you ever proved wrong that people won't admit they are wrong? Me, specifically, since I'd rather not call anyone else out?

You act as if your side trips over itself to change their positions constantly.
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:10 PM   #378
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
I'd like to add that you never, ever see them admit they are wrong. That's a key element to this as well. Who cares if there are numerous citations showing that? Just either take a break from posting, or derail the conversation. Rinse and repeat.
Dude, why do you continue to clutter up these threads with your content-less spam posting dribble?

Is it because you don't get the attention you crave for over in alpha?
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:23 PM   #379
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

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Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy View Post
Dude, why do you continue to clutter up these threads with your content-less spam posting dribble?

Is it because you don't get the attention you crave for over in alpha?
Dude, why do you continue to clutter up these threads with your content-less spam posting dribble?
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:49 PM   #380
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dereds View Post
... you claimed that SJW's were wrong to try and shame people for expressing particular beliefs while you were engaged in attempting to shame SJWs for expressing their beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named View Post
is great circle of life
It's also the Big Lie.

Everything that OSJers actually do, they claim these shadowy SJWers do instead... shut down conversations, desire censorship and 'safe spaces', can't be reasoned with/brainwashed, the real racists, dividing and divisive, and having IRL negativities.
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:54 PM   #381
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

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Originally Posted by 13ball View Post
Dude, why do you continue to clutter up these threads with your content-less spam posting dribble?
Dude, you know very well that my posts are concise, factual exposes of truth.

And I don't spam post. Only attention seekers do that.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:33 PM   #382
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466 View Post
What have you ever proved wrong that people won't admit they are wrong? Me, specifically, since I'd rather not call anyone else out?

You act as if your side trips over itself to change their positions constantly.
Just in the past week I've seen people give you well reasoned and non-toxic responses to your seemingly genuine questions and you respond with "I don't need to explain to you how the world works", "You are too stupid to understand", "I make good money and I'm not a loser like you", "Welcome to my ignore list", as well as the non-sequitur: "This is why you people lost. When will you open your eyes?"


before you think I'm picking on you, you asked for it to include only you. I don't want to break the rules by discussing many of the other posters that I think also never admit a change in stance after being debunked with facts and citations.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:03 PM   #383
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

You've made 74 posts in five years?
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Old 02-14-2017, 04:48 AM   #384
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

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Originally Posted by LordJvK View Post
You've made 74 posts in five years?
You've made 12,000 posts in two years?

or,

Are you implying that my identity holds weight to the logic behind my posts?
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:06 AM   #385
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK View Post
I've gone around the houses trying to do without the label [SJW] since it was co-opted by the far right,
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
When the ultimate SJW beta cuck Angela Murkel starts saying things like this: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/233987...ishing-u-turn/ You know that there's been an entire sea-change in how leaders are thinking about this now.
Something seems off here. I guess the alt right co-opted the phrases beta and cuck as well?

How goes the quest to find alternative terms for beta and cuck so no one makes the dreadful mistake of associating you with the alt-right?
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:51 AM   #386
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

In the second post I was talking about how Merkel would be perceived by far-right voters.

I happen to think "cuck" is a pretty apt and accurate insult though since it describes exactly the behaviour of those who constantly and persistently put the needs of other countries and peoples ahead of their own country and people. I'm fond of it for that reason, although I seldom use it because of the associations and because of complete morons like you who think that words have usage exclusive to certain groups.

I mean, it really isn't my fault that you cannot handle nuance.
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:36 AM   #387
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Crispen View Post
Just in the past week I've seen people give you well reasoned and non-toxic responses to your seemingly genuine questions and you respond with "I don't need to explain to you how the world works", "You are too stupid to understand", "I make good money and I'm not a loser like you", "Welcome to my ignore list", as well as the non-sequitur: "This is why you people lost. When will you open your eyes?"


before you think I'm picking on you, you asked for it to include only you. I don't want to break the rules by discussing many of the other posters that I think also never admit a change in stance after being debunked with facts and citations.
You are welcome to quote those exchanges. If you think kerowo makes well reasoned and non toxic arguments, I don't think there is much to discuss. He's as disingenuous as possible when arguing any point. But please, let's go through the exercise. Quote his great argument and my crappy response to it.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:14 AM   #388
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Let's examine some of these claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
So, what to make of this whole OSJer (and by extension SJWer) phenomenon? Here's a few takeaways...
[list=1][*]It ain't new. This is the same tired old 'Run Amok PC Police' routine, which was think-tanked up c1990, and has been pushed as propaganda ever since. It's particular to the interwebs era, but was around long before the rise the social media brands. The only difference is the "PC Police" are being rebranded as SJWers, illiberal liberals, regressive far left, etc, etc.
While there is some cross-over between "PC gone mad" and the current strain of anti-SJW, it's not correct to say that they are the same thing.

Let's take a look at some recent anti-SJW videos.



Here, the fairly well known anti-SJW shoe0nhead takes on the youtube series "Queer Kid Stuff" to argue against the basically insane points made by the presenter of that series.



Here Bearing takes on claims made by a youtuber that Milo is a white nationalist whose book should be boycotted. He attacks the points made one-by-one. Now you might disagree with his arguments, but this seems somewhat different from "it's PC gone mad" would you not agree?



Here the anti-SJW youtuber Noel Plum goes through point-by-point on why calls to ban Donald Trump from the UK are rank hypocrisy.

None of these things are what you describe. They are people making arguments against (basically insane or hypocritical) arguments made by other people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
[*]The OSJers are the peeps shutting down conversations. Anytime the conversation has segued into a discussion regarding the PC Police, the OSJer has already accomplished their (perhaps unconscious) goal. He's already shut down the prior conversation by changing the subject, by this willful PC Police derailment. That is exactly what this whole OSJer routine was designed to do. This is called 'Tone Policing'.
Nonsense. People tend to react to things that actually happen in the world, and then voice their opinions on them.

When they see idiocy or hypocrisy or people just openly making untrue claims for ideological ends, they point these things out.

The fact that the youtubers I linked above have cause to do this on an almost daily basis shows you that these things are real.

It's not *simply* about "tone", it's about content too. Is Milo really a white supremacist? Is that KCL guy who tweeted about crime statistics *really* a racist?

These are the questions SJWs force. Whatever point was being made before that is lost. You see, what happens is the exact opposite of what you say.

We react to people shutting down free speech or incorrectly labelling people.

No one really gets down to that level of nitty gritty because SJWs bog things down in the manner we saw in that thread in the other forum. This is on you guys, not on people who oppose you.

Stop being illiberal, lying, bullying morons, and people will stop reacting to you in that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
[*]OSJ-ism doesn't make any sense because it's propaganda. The OSJer routine starts as a willful derailment to shut down a conversation. This is typically of the form "ZOMG here is an anecdotal story about the Run Amok PC Police ZOMG". But what happens 100% when the OSJers are asked what should be done about this ZOMG-ZOMG crisis? Well, 100% we get absolutely no engagement or answer at all from the OSJers. Why?
This is really nonsense. If you want to talk about a topic specifically how can it be a "derailment"?

How can people whose youtube channels are dedicated to this be "derailing"? This is a silly non-point.

It's also ironic considering the extraordinary degree to which I've seen people here and in the other place willfully derail topics to:

- quibble over definitions
- make personal remarks about another poster
- dredge up points made from other threads and arguments
- accuse people of lying
- drag in non-relevant topics and demand that the poster address those and not he topic at hand

It really beggars belief that you could try to press this point into YOUR service. Staggering lack of self-awareness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
The reason is that these OSJers aren't interested in having any policy discussion at all. That's not what they do. They are (perhaps unconsciously) interested in shutting down conversations by derailing them, as described above. They are also very interested in shaming what they call 'the left' in general. This quote sums up this up nicely...
Complete nonsense. If you look through my posting history, you'll see me talking about Brexit, trade deals, if Trump's protectionism could work, why Thatcherism was made inevitable by 1979, why immigration policy in Europe has been a disaster, why I think social cohesion is a good thing and why identity politics is divisive.

I've talked about why I support free markets and why I broadly agree with Friedman that government interference doesn't lead anywhere good.

I've talked about gentrification and whether or not it really solves crime or simply off sets the issue.

I've talked about why abortion is good both from a civil liberities and from a utilitarian perspective.

I've talked about the disasterous effects of planned economies, and why people need to learn the lessons of how and why socialism and communism failed in the last century.

I've talked about tins of sweetcorn being at an affordable price point for everyone being "the magic" of capitalism.

I've talked about all of these things and a whole raft of other things.

EVERY step of the way, I've had to deal with derailing accusations of being X label from people I've been arguing with.

People who instead of deailing with the arguments go for "you're a Tory", "you're a bootlicker of power", "you only support privilege", "you're a white supremacist" and 100s of other such derailing childish nonsense.

Again and again I try to stick to the issue at hand and again and again SJWs derail with personal abuse.

Then the issue becomes NOT "is LordJvK correct about capitalism's ability to produce affordable goods" and instead becomes "is LordJvK a racist / sexist / apologist for the rich / slave to power / delete as appropriate".

It's a transparently cynical and atrocious tactic, which prevents you from EVER actually engaging in the topic at hand.

I've seen people do it over and over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
That's as far as it goes, as far as the OSJers are concerned: shutting down conversations by derailing, and 'proving' the "ugly authoritarianism of the left" by purely anecdotal means. That's it. They don't have policy debates, because they ain't got any stinkin policy... they just want to shut things down, and carry on about the ugliness of what they call 'the left'.
See above, this is actually the complete opposite of what actually happens.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:34 AM   #389
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Dude, you're a putz without any original thought in your dome.

You agree with Friedman because he said things you think sound cool. You don't have the equipment in your noggin to actually interpret real world data on government policies. In the end, you're just a tool whose views have been formed of utoooooobzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz instead of in academia. Congrats, you're a dullard who can type a lot on the internet.

If there's an emasculated male, it is FoldN and you, two twerps who cry constantly about small matters. You do have one thing going for you. You don't seem rapey like FoldN.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:08 AM   #390
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

I think it's pretty insulting to say that I don't have the capacity to interpret real-world data. And also that I am never original in my thinking.

For example, my view that some degree of homogeneity and cultural cache is a good thing and is being lost because people don't really watch TV anymore is an analysis I haven't seen in many places.

My idea that 18 year olds don't know things any more because the process of passive osmosis that most of us picked up from growing up on TV, buying records, magazines and so on, which is lost in a world that privileges diversity and "going your own way" above everything else -- an on-demand culture, a dispersed culture -- as far as I know isn't a widely available view. If other people have made these arguments, I've not come across them.

I mean -- my career, my very livelihood -- has been built on making original arguments, so I find this swipe from Paul D pretty insulting. When have you and I EVER discussed anything for you to make this judgement on my ability to interpret things?

I don't know why you have continuously to demean other people in making your arguments.

And it's really rich this coming in an environment in which various people on the left just parrot endlessly the same talking points as they learn them off by rote. The left is infested by orthodox and herd-like thinking. It cements itself into dogma.

Yet, I'm the one who can't think for myself? GTFO
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:16 AM   #391
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK View Post
Let's examine some of these claims. While there is some cross-over between "PC gone mad" and the current strain of anti-SJW, it's not correct to say that they are the same thing...
OK, there's a set of IRL peeps who OSJers call 'Run Amok PC Police'. There's a set of peeps who OSJers call 'SJWers'. I'm asserting these are, for practical purposes, the same set. You are asserting that they are, for practical purposes, only somewhat overlapping.

Now I'm at a disadvantage here, as I'm not an OSJer, I neither whine about the PC Police or whine about SJWers. You, and the other OSJers, don't help here. So far, youz guyz have failed to describe this set of IRL SJWers in spectacular fashion.

But sure, we can duck down that rabbit hole again. Can you give us a heuristic to identify these IRL SJWers? Can you give us a heuristic to identify these IRL PC Police? Is one a proper subset of the other? What characteristics would cause an OSJer call a peep a PC Police but not a SJWer?
What characteristics would cause an OSJer to call a peep a SJWer but not a PC Police?

Let's slow things down here, and work on this particular subtopic, if you don't mind. After we've made some progress here, I promise I'll address you other remarks regarding my remarks.

Quote:
... Let's take a look at some recent anti-SJW videos...
LMFAO @utoobz !!!1!
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:23 AM   #392
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Anyone still have the dancing yootoobes cat?
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:34 AM   #393
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

There are various different flavours of SJW.

- Feminists of different kinds. Third-wave feminists are the target of most vitriol for some of the absurd claims and arguments they make.
- People who propogate "gender theory" in the service of denying the biological binary
- Proponents of identity politics who talk about privilege and intersectionality as if they were in any way useful concepts.
- Those who scream "racism" in arguments when it is not at all clear that racism is taking place
- Those who argue for rules and laws based on feelings as opposed to rights, this is "the culture of offense" being used as a basis for law-making
- Activists who shut down public speaking engagements on the basis that they disagree with them
- Those who allow nothing to brook the sacred creed of "diversity is always good"
- Those who appear to believe that because they speak as "victims" everything they say is right (particularly pervasive in the transgender issue)

Happy with that? An SJW is broadly speaking at least one of the things listed above. Often all of them rolled into one tsunami of leftist nonsense.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:36 AM   #394
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Also, your sneering "lol youtube" attitude is pretty anti-intellectual and anti-discourse.

Why do you sneer at youtube?

Why do you think saying "lol youtube" is a counter argument with any validity?
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:44 AM   #395
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Hahaha this dude definitely is not a professor he ****ed snowed whichever mod he tried to convince. lol youtubes indeed.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:53 AM   #396
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK View Post
There are various different flavours of SJW.

- Feminists of different kinds. Third-wave feminists are the target of most vitriol for some of the absurd claims and arguments they make.
- People who propogate "gender theory" in the service of denying the biological binary
- Proponents of identity politics who talk about privilege and intersectionality as if they were in any way useful concepts.
- Those who scream "racism" in arguments when it is not at all clear that racism is taking place
- Those who argue for rules and laws based on feelings as opposed to rights, this is "the culture of offense" being used as a basis for law-making
- Activists who shut down public speaking engagements on the basis that they disagree with them
- Those who allow nothing to brook the sacred creed of "diversity is always good"
- Those who appear to believe that because they speak as "victims" everything they say is right (particularly pervasive in the transgender issue)

Happy with that? An SJW is broadly speaking at least one of the things listed above. Often all of them rolled into one tsunami of leftist nonsense.
Just so I am clear are you suggesting that each and every one of the above is a sufficient condition for classification as a SJW?
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:03 AM   #397
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

It's like arguing with a racist about the definition of racism, and the racist is predisposed to claim victory no matter what.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:05 AM   #398
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

I would wish to be more circumspect because generalisations are always prone to reduce or elide nuances. But I'd say that 100% of SJWs would be at least one of the things I've listed.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:06 AM   #399
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie View Post
It's like arguing with a racist about the definition of racism, and the racist is predisposed to claim victory no matter what.
Actually it is nothing like this at all. If you wish to insist that it is, please explain the terms of how this analogy works. It is not clear to me in the slightest.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:07 AM   #400
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Re: !!! The opposition to Social Justice thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK View Post
There are various different flavours of SJW... [kist of characteristics]... An SJW is broadly speaking at least one of the things listed above. Often all of them rolled into one tsunami of leftist nonsense.
OK, how about these Run Amok PC Police... can we get similar list of characterizations for those peeps OSJers label with that term?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK View Post
Also, your sneering "lol youtube" attitude is pretty anti-intellectual and anti-discourse. Why do you sneer at youtube? Why do you think saying "lol youtube" is a counter argument with any validity?
I'm not making any counter argument when I sneer at utoobz. Post a transcript if you wanna bring that content into the thread. Video can't be quoted, or searched, or hyperlinked, and take significantly longer to consume than text. Audio is not generally compatible with how lots of peeps, myself included, choose to enjoy 2+2.
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