Niqabs / Full faced veils need to be banned - Page 2 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Of course some of them "want" to wear Burkas. The societal pressure is very strong and they end up conforming. Like in the Orthodox Jewish community, you either conform to their laws (women have to wear wigs, can't shake a man's hand, skirt has to be below the knee) or you don't belong, but forcing women to walk around with their faces covered is in my opinion forcing them to lose their identities as human beings.

Its straight up acknowledging that females are not equal to men and they are treated like a slave to their husbands.

Bolded is just dumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

It's not representative because one would have acid thrown on her face by her husband if she dressed like the other.

Wow, how common is that? How common is it in the western democracies that you want to ban burqas? How many hours of Rush Limbaugh do you listen to in an average week?

11-03-2014 , 10:50 AM

#28

POPEYE81

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Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 528

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukraprout

Most people agree that niqabs suck, the debate is about whether or not they should be banned.

they should be if u wanna work for the goverment, like being teacher, police or w/e. what people wear in privat shouldnt concern the goverment, imo.
but i also believe there is a downside of it in public, cause not fully integrated muslims might come to a point where they feel obligated to it. and i think thats not gonna help integration.

11-03-2014 , 11:04 AM

#29

JayTeeMe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by POPEYE81

they should be if u wanna work for the goverment, like being teacher, police or w/e. what people wear in privat shouldnt concern the goverment, imo.

Yeah, i don't know. Probably depends on the job. Do they let people of African descent where Dashikis to work? Can people of English descent wear track suits?

11-03-2014 , 11:05 AM

#30

thekid345

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

Since this is Islamophobia week, might as well pile it on.

I visited the old neighborhood I grew up in and noticed a stark increase in Islamic women walking around with their strollers with Niqabs on. Meanwhile their husbands were walking around freely about able to show his beautiful face to the world. Niqabs represent an ideal created by MEN to control whom is allowed to lay their eyes on THEIR women. Might as well throw a collar and leash around her neck.

I was standing there starring at such a spectacle and noticed how disturbed I was seeing a female in a Niqab. **** this.

Western governments need to suck it up and flat out ban this stupidity. No full faced slavery Niqab's should be allowed.

If I had it my way, I'd ship those husbands on a boat back to the desert.

Come at me but I'm probably not going to ever change my position on this.

Talk about getting away from any sort of "inner peace". Tien relax, go to a Masjid, maybe get yourself a nice Halal meal. Instead of assuming that Muslims are out to get you, why not just talk with some Muslims?

11-03-2014 , 11:35 AM

#31

Tien

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukraprout

You could use the same argument to say that high heels should be banned because they cause feet injuries and women only wear them because of societal pressure.

Even if we accept the premise that no woman would willingly dress like that, fining her is criminalizing the victim.

High heals weren't created because the man felt insecure that other men were looking at his female possession.

It's the only reason full faced veils and burkas existed in the first place, because some Islamic men didn't like that other men desired his possessions. If you ask your wife today to wear a full faced veil, the reason is not only for "religious reasons", its because you don't want your wife to be seen by other men. That thinking is just backwards and progressing societies don't need to accept barbarianist policies.

Last edited by Tien; 11-03-2014 at 11:41 AM.

11-03-2014 , 11:40 AM

#32

Dids

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There's no good argument to ban them, but it grosses me the **** out every time I see one of our male Saudi students rocking the finest trendy American leisure wear when his girl is covered head to toe.

There's just some objectively ****ty aspects of every culture.

11-03-2014 , 11:43 AM

#33

AlexM

ignored

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

It's not representative because one would have acid thrown on her face by her husband if she dressed like the other.

I, for one, support laws banning throwing acid in people's faces.

A better reason for why it's a bad analogy is that men wear even less when dressed in swimwear.

11-03-2014 , 11:52 AM

#34

JayTeeMe

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Gotta be an ugly chick's paradise. As opposed to our culture which determines a female's value almost entirely by her appearance, in birqa cultures her appearance is nearly completely removed from the equation.

11-03-2014 , 12:10 PM

#35

jjshabado

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Tien, I see some girls wearing ridiculously short skirts outside of bars while standing in line in the Winter. It seems extremely unhealthy, should the Government require them to wear warmer clothes, because they're just wearing those clothes because society pressures them into it.

11-03-2014 , 12:15 PM

#36

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

Wrong again. Veils and the like came about originally because the sun is ****ing hot in the desert and people wanted to protect themselves from the sun and the sand. The veil predates Islam. Traditional Bedouin male garb is pretty similar for the same reason.

11-03-2014 , 12:21 PM

#37

Anais

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukraprout

Wearing one has a tiny fine. Forcing someone else to wear one has a hundred times the fine.

11-03-2014 , 12:48 PM

#38

JayTeeMe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

And as the Bedouin moved out of the deserts this garb wasn't necessary for survival anymore. Male attire evolved away from it but females were not comfortable bearing skin around unrelated males. For more information, see the catcall threads.

11-03-2014 , 12:49 PM

#39

Tien

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JayTeeMe

LOL, imagine the buyer's remorse when the man unveils his wife for the first time!

Guess that's why they're allowed to have multiple veiled wives, gonna hit the lottery one day or another.

11-03-2014 , 12:54 PM

#40

jjshabado

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Anais

Wearing one has a tiny fine. Forcing someone else to wear one has a hundred times the fine.

How do they even define "forcing someone"? Any definition of "forcing" that I would use is already a crime (unlawful confinement, assault, etc.). And non-violent things like 'shunning' don't seem like they should be a crime at all.

11-03-2014 , 12:56 PM

#41

jjshabado

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Ignoring the stupidity of the State deciding what's in a women's best interests to wear - its also not even a practical solution. Any woman that's wearing a full faced veil isn't going to suddenly become some liberated western women just because the State has passed this law.

You can't pass laws that makes someone see themselves in a totally different light. You need to actually do things like education and offer services to give those people options if they want to explore alternatives.

11-03-2014 , 12:56 PM

#42

Tien

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

Not really the same comparison. Her husband isn't telling her to wear that during the winter, and she won't be frowned upon by her family if she decides not to wear short skirts in the middle of winter.

11-03-2014 , 12:57 PM

#43

Tien

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshabado

You can't pass laws that makes someone see themselves in a totally different light. You need to actually do things like education and offer services to give those people options if they want to explore alternatives.

I agree.

I'm just mad and my jimmies are rustled.

But I'll shake my head if I walk into government offices and I'm served by a lady that's covered head to toe.

11-03-2014 , 12:57 PM

#44

jjshabado

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

Hey boyfriend / social group may be pressuring her into it. And she likely will be frowned upon by her social group for not wearing short skirts or other fairly revealing clothing.

11-03-2014 , 12:59 PM

#45

JayTeeMe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

peers tho

11-03-2014 , 01:05 PM

#46

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayTeeMe

The claim was about where they came from originally, that's all I was addressing.

11-03-2014 , 01:08 PM

#47

JayTeeMe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

I agree.

I'm just mad and my jimmies are rustled.

But I'll shake my head if I walk into government offices and I'm served by a lady that's covered head to toe.

+1

Even worse is one of those Jewish guys with the curly beard and funny hat. Or one of those Indian chicks with the dot on her face. THIS IS AMERICA! YOU SHOULD HAVE TO DRESS LIKE ME!!!

What's the point of even having a government if we can't use it to make other people dress the way I like them to?

11-03-2014 , 02:27 PM

#48

Paul D

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyJ

Lol my entire question was whether you're willing to take this to the extreme, because if not then this is a really lazy argument. You didn't answer

It isn't a lazy argument. Either you believe in taking away peoples' rights to wear what they choose or you don't.

11-03-2014 , 02:48 PM

#49

spanktehbadwookie

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So the people who choose certain roles based in religion, who are not slaves nor abused, are told what to do because what?

11-03-2014 , 03:02 PM

#50

74Offsuit

old hand

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie

So the people who choose certain roles based in religion, who are not slaves nor abused, are told what to do because what?

In some cases there may be tremendous cultural pressure to conform. Non conformity could mean abandoning your family and community.

That said, banning veils is a totally unacceptable imposition in my view. The French justified a ban by claiming preventing identification of a person is a security risk and a social hindrance but I don't buy it.

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