Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics version 7.0 more politics.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2016, 02:37 PM   #101
Bladesman87
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,644
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Yes. 8th & 4th favorites out of 32 on this site.
Cool. It's only a small punt but I at least want a sweat from it. Not like in the World Cup when I drew Columbia and Cameroon or something daft.
Bladesman87 is offline  
Old 09-05-2016, 03:15 PM   #102
Shame Trolly !!!1!
Neo-Gorean
 
Shame Trolly !!!1!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dhimmi EcoWarrior for ISIS
Posts: 4,586
Re: Kaepernick

Rutrow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by USA Today
President Obama said Monday that NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick was "exercising his constitutional right" to bring attention to racial injustice by not taking part in the national anthem at the start of San Francisco 49ers football games...
B.Obama's a Constitutional scholar, so he'll be walking back his "constitutional right" mention. Other than that however, the NFL, and by extension major sports in general, just got a request from the Bully Pulpit in Chief to let these protests run their course.
Shame Trolly !!!1! is offline  
Old 09-05-2016, 03:45 PM   #103
FoldnDark
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
FoldnDark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louie
Posts: 11,939
Re: Kaepernick

Come on now, Shamey, you know Obama is a champion of free speech, and he's not wrong here. Of course Kaep is exercising his constitutional right. What Obama (a fantastic politician) is leaving out is the NFL, a private company, has the right to discipline him, as you've pointed out. Obama is giving the NFL even more cover to do what is already in their best interest, remain neutral.

Btw, do you really think most of the Kaepernick Jerseys being bought lately are burnt?
FoldnDark is offline  
Old 09-05-2016, 03:51 PM   #104
chezlaw
Limey Bastard
 
chezlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 32,797
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Rutrow...



B.Obama's a Constitutional scholar, so he'll be walking back his "constitutional right" mention. Other than that however, the NFL, and by extension major sports in general, just got a request from the Bully Pulpit in Chief to let these protests run their course.
I'm very far from a constiutional scholar so just asking questions. Could standing for the anthem type stuff be seen as a private activity rather than as part of the job making them akin to a spectator legally?

On the vendor point. I see what you're saying but a) I think the creative anarchy inherent in these situations is a very progressive force and b) it means the vendor shoud be the one mainly targeted by protests if they're the ones doing the sacking (whoever awards the contracts may be fair game as well).
chezlaw is offline  
Old 09-05-2016, 04:42 PM   #105
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,665
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Rutrow...







B.Obama's a Constitutional scholar, so he'll be walking back his "constitutional right" mention. Other than that however, the NFL, and by extension major sports in general, just got a request from the Bully Pulpit in Chief to let these protests run their course.


It's still a constitutional right to sit during the anthem. Especially when in the context of statements made by a Government Official.

He can still be fired/disciplined for it. But that doesn't change the fact that he has the right to do it.
jjshabado is offline  
Old 09-05-2016, 05:10 PM   #106
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: now Watergate does not bother me
Posts: 90,087
Re: Kaepernick

He's a joke, his football career is shot and he's trying to spin this political bs into something now. Like that sad failed Vikings punter that nobody even remembers now.
kioshk is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 05:49 AM   #107
adios
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Russian Troll
Posts: 20,822
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
It's still a constitutional right to sit during the anthem. Especially when in the context of statements made by a Government Official.

He can still be fired/disciplined for it. But that doesn't change the fact that he has the right to do it.
Fired yes, disciplined probably not. In this case NFL CBA probably is Kap's friend. Pretty sure NFLPA would fight some sort of suspension for this.
adios is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 05:53 AM   #108
adios
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Russian Troll
Posts: 20,822
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by kioshk View Post
He's a joke, his football career is shot and he's trying to spin this political bs into something now. Like that sad failed Vikings punter that nobody even remembers now.
I think Kaep is sincere but his protest is ineffective. However, he has called a lot of attention to his protest and I read his jersey sales have increased a lot.
adios is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 05:58 AM   #109
florentinopeces
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,201
Re: Kaepernick

His jerseys are selling well in the Arab world and commie countries.
florentinopeces is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 10:37 AM   #110
Huehuecoyotl
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Huehuecoyotl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: It's hard to get by on a smile
Posts: 22,811
Re: Kaepernick

Grrr Arabs
Huehuecoyotl is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 12:18 PM   #111
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,665
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by adios View Post
Fired yes, disciplined probably not. In this case NFL CBA probably is Kap's friend. Pretty sure NFLPA would fight some sort of suspension for this.
Sure. I just meant more generally an employer can take actions against someone for exercising their constitutional rights (in cases like this) but that doesn't stop the action from being a constitutional right.
jjshabado is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 04:47 PM   #112
The REAL Trolly
old hand
 
The REAL Trolly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Accept no imitations
Posts: 1,601
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1! View Post
Rutrow...



B.Obama's a Constitutional scholar, so he'll be walking back his "constitutional right" mention. Other than that however, the NFL, and by extension major sports in general, just got a request from the Bully Pulpit in Chief to let these protests run their course.
The NFL is out to make money. They give zero ****s what the POTUS says.
The REAL Trolly is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 05:33 PM   #113
Shame Trolly !!!1!
Neo-Gorean
 
Shame Trolly !!!1!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dhimmi EcoWarrior for ISIS
Posts: 4,586
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by The REAL Trolly View Post
The NFL is out to make money. They give zero ****s what the POTUS says.
Sure. I was thinking about all those 20-something professional athletes, a plurality black men, who have had B.Obama as their POTUS for most of their adult lives. The NFL has said it's OK, now Obama flip-flops from "objectionable" to "constitutional right". That could start a bandwagon.

Anyone wanna WAG an O/U on how many NFL players take the knee this opening week?
Shame Trolly !!!1! is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 10:24 PM   #114
mongidig
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,146
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE View Post
Most reasonable people are indifferent to standing for the NA or pledge. In the real world you are either a productive member of society or you're not. The sad TRUTH is most people involved in police shootings aren't going to work, or contributing to society in any way.

If you are an upstanding citizen, black or white, you likely don't have to worry about police brutality. And being from Philly, I know plenty of people that were of both races that got the crap kicked out of them by cops, and every time they had it coming.
This is exactly it.

Don't commit crimes, don't have multiple pryors, don't have a warrant out for your arrest, don't act suspicious, don't resist arrest, don't give the cop attitude.

Do we really think cops are hunting people because of the color of their skin?

If I'm a cop and I pull up your license and there is an extensive record, it's gonna put me into heightened state of stress. This is when bad things happen.

All these protests do is make the haters hate more and create more haters. Meanwhile the police can no longer do their job for fear of being judged.

Why is it some cultures whom have been "oppressed" have gone on to thrive, while others continue to play the role of victim.

Is this racial inequality we're talking about or economic inequality? I think this movement is a little confused.
mongidig is offline  
Old 09-06-2016, 11:34 PM   #115
Pipedreamer101
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 224
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
This is exactly it.



Don't commit crimes, don't have multiple pryors, don't have a warrant out for your arrest, don't act suspicious, don't resist arrest, don't give the cop attitude.



Do we really think cops are hunting people because of the color of their skin?



If I'm a cop and I pull up your license and there is an extensive record, it's gonna put me into heightened state of stress. This is when bad things happen.



All these protests do is make the haters hate more and create more haters. Meanwhile the police can no longer do their job for fear of being judged.



Why is it some cultures whom have been "oppressed" have gone on to thrive, while others continue to play the role of victim.



Is this racial inequality we're talking about or economic inequality? I think this movement is a little confused.


Police are public servants who are hired to protect & serve, and they are paid by tax payers dollars. The idea that if you have prior convictions and/or arrest's that it automatically entitles you (the police offer) to allow your emotions to overcome you is totally absurd. Also what does "acting suspicious" mean? And why would I act complicit when being arrested if I haven't done anything wrong and the police in question are acting in a unconstitutional manner?

Obviously your not armed with any solid statistics or facts and would much rather spew your rhetoric and opinions. You seemly fail to comprehend the idea or the existence of institutionalised racism. A simply proof of this is that whites & black's use recreational drugs at the same frequency yet blacks are are arrested for drug related crimes 3x as much as their counterparts.

Lastly you say that other "culture's" have overcome their oppressions and now flourish rather than wallowing in their misery's of the past. I think the best cultural example of this is the Jews, but have you not taken into account that they have had a helping hand every step of the way? From yearly reparations from the German government or that the British government qallocated them and entire country with their own government, economy & military force etc... Not to mention that the U.S donates an Excess of $3 Billion dollars per year?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pipedreamer101 is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 05:32 AM   #116
wil318466
temp-banned
 
wil318466's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 19,028
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedreamer101 View Post
Police are public servants who are hired to protect & serve, and they are paid by tax payers dollars. The idea that if you have prior convictions and/or arrest's that it automatically entitles you (the police offer) to allow your emotions to overcome you is totally absurd. Also what does "acting suspicious" mean? And why would I act complicit when being arrested if I haven't done anything wrong and the police in question are acting in a unconstitutional manner?
Courts are ruled in their favor plenty of times. "Acting suspicious" gives the police leeway. It is not defined, it gives police a certain level of judgment in what is "suspicious" behavior or not. And yes, you should be complicit even when a police officer is acting in an unconstitutional manner. It is not up to you to judge what a police officer can do or not do while in that situation, and the courts have voiced their opinion by their judgments over and over again.
wil318466 is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 05:35 AM   #117
wil318466
temp-banned
 
wil318466's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 19,028
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE View Post
Most reasonable people are indifferent to standing for the NA or pledge. In the real world you are either a productive member of society or you're not. The sad TRUTH is most people involved in police shootings aren't going to work, or contributing to society in any way.

If you are an upstanding citizen, black or white, you likely don't have to worry about police brutality. And being from Philly, I know plenty of people that were of both races that got the crap kicked out of them by cops, and every time they had it coming.
Ehh. Being "productive" doesn't mean much. If you are saying most of the people getting into it with cops are mostly scumbags, I can see that sort of argument (I don't agree with it, but I could see it), but whether they contribute enough to society doesn't mean anything to me. People can be total lazy pieces of crap. I'm fine with that. It's a free country.

I do agree Philly cops are rough. Heh.
wil318466 is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 05:52 AM   #118
adios
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Russian Troll
Posts: 20,822
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedreamer101 View Post
Police are public servants who are hired to protect & serve, and they are paid by tax payers dollars. The idea that if you have prior convictions and/or arrest's that it automatically entitles you (the police offer) to allow your emotions to overcome you is totally absurd. Also what does "acting suspicious" mean? And why would I act complicit when being arrested if I haven't done anything wrong and the police in question are acting in a unconstitutional manner?

Obviously your not armed with any solid statistics or facts and would much rather spew your rhetoric and opinions. You seemly fail to comprehend the idea or the existence of institutionalised racism. A simply proof of this is that whites & black's use recreational drugs at the same frequency yet blacks are are arrested for drug related crimes 3x as much as their counterparts.

Lastly you say that other "culture's" have overcome their oppressions and now flourish rather than wallowing in their misery's of the past. I think the best cultural example of this is the Jews, but have you not taken into account that they have had a helping hand every step of the way? From yearly reparations from the German government or that the British government qallocated them and entire country with their own government, economy & military force etc... Not to mention that the U.S donates an Excess of $3 Billion dollars per year?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Question, if you could get a significantly better performance from police officers by doubling the salary of police officers how much more of your income would you be willing to pay in taxes? The idea here is that becoming a police officer becomes much more difficult because people are vetted more completely, higher educational standards are mandatory, etc. but is counter balanced by the higher salary. If you want a lot better performance you are probably faced with much more expensive police forces.
adios is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 08:49 AM   #119
mongidig
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,146
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedreamer101 View Post
Police are public servants who are hired to protect & serve, and they are paid by tax payers dollars. The idea that if you have prior convictions and/or arrest's that it automatically entitles you (the police offer) to allow your emotions to overcome you is totally absurd. Also what does "acting suspicious" mean? And why would I act complicit when being arrested if I haven't done anything wrong and the police in question are acting in a unconstitutional manner?

Obviously your not armed with any solid statistics or facts and would much rather spew your rhetoric and opinions. You seemly fail to comprehend the idea or the existence of institutionalised racism. A simply proof of this is that whites & black's use recreational drugs at the same frequency yet blacks are are arrested for drug related crimes 3x as much as their counterparts.

Lastly you say that other "culture's" have overcome their oppressions and now flourish rather than wallowing in their misery's of the past. I think the best cultural example of this is the Jews, but have you not taken into account that they have had a helping hand every step of the way? From yearly reparations from the German government or that the British government qallocated them and entire country with their own government, economy & military force etc... Not to mention that the U.S donates an Excess of $3 Billion dollars per year?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's this attitude "why should I be complicit?" That gets people beat up or shot. Here's a stat for you. Black people are 8 times more likely to resist arrest. Perhaps this helps to explain the imbalance in arrests.

Every race, religion, sexual orientation etc. has been oppressed at one time or another. Those whom have created change from within and let go of their bitterness have gone on to succeed.

Do you really think these protests are helping the cause?
mongidig is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 08:55 AM   #120
chezlaw
Limey Bastard
 
chezlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 32,797
Re: Kaepernick

You mean they are 8 times more likely to be charged with resisting arrest?

There's a huge gap between that and actually resisting arrest.
chezlaw is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 09:44 AM   #121
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,665
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by adios View Post
Question, if you could get a significantly better performance from police officers by doubling the salary of police officers how much more of your income would you be willing to pay in taxes? The idea here is that becoming a police officer becomes much more difficult because people are vetted more completely, higher educational standards are mandatory, etc. but is counter balanced by the higher salary. If you want a lot better performance you are probably faced with much more expensive police forces.
In Ontario, and I don't know how this compares to American jurisdictions, police are generally paid quite well. It's not that hard to clear 100k/year. That's pretty good for a job that requires relatively little education background.

But similar to teaching and other important public service positions - attracting good candidates is only part of the problem. That needs to be coupled with a process for removing those people that aren't doing well. You can never hire for a position with 100% (or hell even a lot lower) success.

So increasing compensation gets you more good candidates - but it also gets you more bad candidates. And because picking good candidates from bad candidates is really hard (regardless of how much 'vetting' and additional hiring hurdles you add) - you need a process to fix your mistakes.

And that process simply doesn't exist. And without that, you're not going to get significantly better performance.
jjshabado is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 10:04 AM   #122
Pipedreamer101
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 224
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
It's this attitude "why should I be complicit?" That gets people beat up or shot. Here's a stat for you. Black people are 8 times more likely to resist arrest. Perhaps this helps to explain the imbalance in arrests.



Every race, religion, sexual orientation etc. has been oppressed at one time or another. Those whom have created change from within and let go of their bitterness have gone on to succeed.



Do you really think these protests are helping the cause?


So your essentially saying that if anyone happens to refuse an arrest for what they deem to be valid reasons he or she deserve's to be shot dead?

Is it not this mentality that is continuing the huge disconnect & divide between races in America? Why do everyday citizens have to act so subservient to a complete fool who's likely to have done no more than 6 months training post high school?

As far as "just get over it already" arguments go, have you not considered that perhaps the problems that African American's face in today's society are much more internal than they are external? When a women is pregnant she must ensure she stays away from drugs, alcohol, cigarettes etc. And create a stress free environment because all of this has a significant impact on the child. Now can you image what forced labour, poor living conditions, lack of nutrients and immense stress & trauma can do to not only the mother but the baby itself. This same treatment continued for 400 years and all the physiological torture & mistreatment has transmigrated itself into what you see today. So when you turn on the tv and you see another robbery or murder what you see as issues are actually symptoms...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pipedreamer101 is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 12:36 PM   #123
mongidig
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,146
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedreamer101 View Post
So your essentially saying that if anyone happens to refuse an arrest for what they deem to be valid reasons he or she deserve's to be shot dead?

Is it not this mentality that is continuing the huge disconnect & divide between races in America? Why do everyday citizens have to act so subservient to a complete fool who's likely to have done no more than 6 months training post high school?

As far as "just get over it already" arguments go, have you not considered that perhaps the problems that African American's face in today's society are much more internal than they are external? When a women is pregnant she must ensure she stays away from drugs, alcohol, cigarettes etc. And create a stress free environment because all of this has a significant impact on the child. Now can you image what forced labour, poor living conditions, lack of nutrients and immense stress & trauma can do to not only the mother but the baby itself. This same treatment continued for 400 years and all the physiological torture & mistreatment has transmigrated itself into what you see today. So when you turn on the tv and you see another robbery or murder what you see as issues are actually symptoms...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you put yourself in bad situations, bad things can happen whether you deserve it or not.

Your second point sounds like and economicinequality issue not a racial issue.
mongidig is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 12:45 PM   #124
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,665
Re: Kaepernick

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
If you put yourself in bad situations, bad things can happen whether you deserve it or not.
I love these simplistic statements.

Drunk driver kills a family of 5. Oh well. If you decide to drive, bad things can happen whether you deserve it or not. THEY KNEW THE RISKS!
jjshabado is offline  
Old 09-07-2016, 01:01 PM   #125
Shame Trolly !!!1!
Neo-Gorean
 
Shame Trolly !!!1!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dhimmi EcoWarrior for ISIS
Posts: 4,586
Re: Kaepernick

http://www.tmz.com/2016/09/07/colin-...-sales-donate/

Quote:
Colin Kaepernick jersey sales have EXPLODED ... and now he's puttin' his money where his mouth is, again ... by donating 100% of the proceeds he receives from the transactions.

Kaep -- whose #7 San Francisco 49ers jersey is currently the best selling jersey in the NFL -- hit up Instagram and vowed to give every dime of his share of the profit to people in need...
Shame Trolly !!!1! is offline  

 
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online