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Originally Posted by Lestat
We sure do. But I've always respected the way you think so maybe you can change my mind. It should be easy enough to do since I'm becoming more and more sour with my country's corrupt government and judicial system.
I'll try but we may be too many miles apart. Our starting point of difference is nothign to do with the problems within the USA, it's a far more fundamental point (not pecualiar to the USA) that the mentality of revering a flag is all about emotion and that its generally bad emotional feelings about patriotism, nationalism, arrogance and superiority.
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Okay, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Sure, there's no question there are things gravely wrong with some of our systems (and I'm starting to think it's almost all or at least the majority of our systems, rather than just a few). Nevertheless, there is also much I'm very grateful for...
I'm grateful I don't live in Saudi Arabia or some other backwards country that is ruled by fundamental religious laws. I'm also very grateful and have too much respect for those who serve and all the sacrifices they and their families make. And unfortunately it is sometimes the ultimate sacrifice.
You think I'm less grateful because I dont care about a flag, demand that authority earns respect before I give it and am disturbed that anyone could get upset by a piece of cloth?
Respect that is demanded of people is a very bad thing. I have to recognise I have some emotioanl investment here because of when I grew up but the tearing down of respect for the symbols of authority in the UK was a desperately needed thing imo and is part of a country growing up and facing it's true self rather than it's image.
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Totally disagree here. This is the protest of a privileged weakling. Just because he's black or part black doesn't make him a champion for BLM or even a surrogate. There is so much more this "punk" could be doing if he really cared about the cause. There are so many better and more productive ways he could be using his name and influence. Instead, he chooses the all too easy path that comes with the least amount of work attached. Sitting down for the national anthem. I'm incredulous that you find this to be brave?!
He has a priviledged position and he is making use of it to gain much publicity for a cause. Nothing weak about that and he's risking a personal backlash that makes it brave. There's no either or here, he can still do the other stuff and leverage the publciity because of what his done here.
It may not be as brave as the famous Olympic salutes but it's along the same lines.
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I disagree with this as well. The flag represents the very country that those in the military are serving! To disrespect the flag is to disrespect what they're fighting for, what many have lost their lives for, and the sacrifices they and their families are making for the country which that flag represents.
I have a lot of sympathy and respect for those who got sent to the Iraq war but scant respect for the people or countries who sent them there (that's USA and UK). The flag can confuse our values because it appeals to those bad emotions.
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I hate to use an old cliche, but it's like a husband complaining about the faults of his wife, or someone complaining about the problems at their job. If you don't like it, go find another one. There are other countries Mr. Kaepernick can go live and make his $19M a year. Oh wait...
Or he can show disrepect to what should be a largely meaningless piece of cloth. If the country can't cope then that's the countries problem.
Last edited by chezlaw; 09-03-2016 at 11:59 PM.