What would make you think he's doing it to draw attention to himself, specifically? If he was doing this in a predominately black city I MAY be able to see your side of the argument, but I'm sure he anticipated that he'd get a lot of backlash for his stance. No?

The origins of the anthem obviously isn't the reason why is he is protesting nor is it the reason why he has gained some following. My argument which you've completely brushed over is the fact that not only is the song itself blatantly racist (see verse 4, last three sentences) but the writer of the song was actually a slave owner himself who thought black's were inferior people.
So I again I pose the question why would anyone with an inch of integrity stand for such message?


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Regarding the bolded, actually there isn't. Blind patriotism ftw I guess.

Thinking that Kap must not think Obama is doing a very good job of managing the Federal govt. I mean Kap is stating that blacks are oppressed in the USA. If so by whom? Kap's protest seems to be directly aimed at the Federal govt in general and the DOJ in particular. Let's say that in Fergeson, MO blacks are oppressed. If so then how can Kap's protest possibly draw attention to that specifically?

Kaepernick
BLM
Corruption
Police
Murder
Justice

Which of the above words do you think have been uttered the most since he decided to put on his little one man demonstration?

Good point, but I think it's inadvertant. I don't think he did it to garner attention.

If he suggested this to his agent before he did it, would you think his agent would support his decision? I would think not, but if you think otherwise I'd like to hear it. I just can't see him doing such a thing without thinking how this could be career suicide.

Why hasn't the NFL come down on Kaep, is this a serious question? Because they ain't too dumb thats why.

Id imagine all of them have been uttered more then they were before. Which is the point of a demonstration.

Why those who say people shouldn't be offended because the flag is just a piece of cloth

The article goes on to cite some protest art that's used the American flag

http://www.mtv.com/news/2927782/black-flag/

I'll try but we may be too many miles apart. Our starting point of difference is nothign to do with the problems within the USA, it's a far more fundamental point (not pecualiar to the USA) that the mentality of revering a flag is all about emotion and that its generally bad emotional feelings about patriotism, nationalism, arrogance and superiority.


You think I'm less grateful because I dont care about a flag, demand that authority earns respect before I give it and am disturbed that anyone could get upset by a piece of cloth?

Respect that is demanded of people is a very bad thing. I have to recognise I have some emotioanl investment here because of when I grew up but the tearing down of respect for the symbols of authority in the UK was a desperately needed thing imo and is part of a country growing up and facing it's true self rather than it's image.

He has a priviledged position and he is making use of it to gain much publicity for a cause. Nothing weak about that and he's risking a personal backlash that makes it brave. There's no either or here, he can still do the other stuff and leverage the publciity because of what his done here.

It may not be as brave as the famous Olympic salutes but it's along the same lines.

I have a lot of sympathy and respect for those who got sent to the Iraq war but scant respect for the people or countries who sent them there (that's USA and UK). The flag can confuse our values because it appeals to those bad emotions.


Or he can show disrepect to what should be a largely meaningless piece of cloth. If the country can't cope then that's the countries problem.

Doesn't have to be anyhting to do with Obama afiak and I dont believe awareness raising protest has to be very specific to be any good. I'm too far away to give anymore of an answer than that.

Kerowo is way over simplifying. I've been meaning to post this somewhere because he desrves a mention and this seems a good opportunity.

Howard Gayle, Liverpool's first black football player and campaigner against racism in football recently refused an MBE (member of the british empire).

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ack-footballer
Some including me have respect for him for turning down that MBE. Some have given him grief for it.

Thats a good point that it doesn't help his argument.

Still dont think we should kowtow to the flag, one song, (could we at least vote on a new one) pledges or judges. Am i missing any kowtowing...Freedom!


I do all this stuff when it comes up and its not a big deal to go with the flow. But not feeling reverence for a flag or song does not mean you have none for those who fought for our freedoms. You dont need those symbols to be thankful.

With regard to the bolded.

http://www.stonekettle.com/

8 people in the country know the 4th verse of the NA, so again, this is a non-issue and has nothing to do with what this thread is about.

The basis of this thread is wether or not you support Kapernicks decision to refuse to stand for the National Anthem. Now if what I have said is true that
a) the song has racist undertones & B) the songs originator & author was a slave owner, then this should be a non argument and its becomes abundantly clear that what he did was 1000% right and no-one should have a problem with it.

So to dismiss my entire post and say that it has nothing to do with this thread and thats its "irrelevant" is abnoxiously, ignorant to say the least...

There's a reason they don't sing that part. It's because it's not relevant anymore.

The anthem could be completely instrumental and the whole standing/sitting thing would have the exact same debate going for all the same reasons (BLM/etc). You think you've found a clever way to do....something?....to put the debate to rest. It doesn't even really matter what side of the whole thing you're on. It's just distracting from the real debate.

It's abnoxiously, ignorant. [sic]

And by "real debate" do you mean the debate on wether or not institutionalised racism exist's? Wether the overzealous & militarised police force needs a complete restructure? Or that African Americans are deserving of reparations for the 400+ years of overt oppression, rape, slavery and killings that were at the hands of "white America's" forefathers?

Rutrow...

What if the players wildcatted? The story of slum lord D.Sterling being bought out of NBA (at record price) is the story of the rookie NBA commissioner standing up. Which while true, is only part of the story. If he didn't stand up when he did, the NBA players would have wildcatted the playoffs.

Speaking of the NBA, we have this news...

Yes? (Lol at adding the reparations thing to discredit the other things you listed though)

The song has racist undertones TO YOU, you care about the views of the writer of the song. This is a non-argument because ONLY YOU are bringing it up. No one else cares about what you care about in relation to this issue. So to keep bringing it up as if it has anything to do with black athletes freedom of expression is obnoxiously self aggrandizing to say the least.

Whether you agree with Kaep or not, this is an effective means of protest that gets his message out and generates a lot of discussion with potential to change minds. While plenty of people may be offended at his "disrespect" of the flag and the country, most recognize that he has that right to offend. I'm glad the NFL is attempting to stay "neutral" and it's probably in their best interest to remain so on this issue.

Side point: I've drawn Bengals and Panthers in a Superb Owl sweep. Should I be happy?

Yes. 8th & 4th favorites out of 32 on this site.

That was really an excellent read! What I learned is that I was wrong to conflate the anthem and flag with paying tribute to vets. But I also learned I have no respect for Kaepernick.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...them/89875384/

NSFW ** NSFW ** NSFW