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Old 09-02-2016, 11:31 PM   #26
Mat Sklansky
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Re: Kaepernick

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There is so much more this "punk" could be doing if he really cared about the cause.
not disagreeing, but can you give some examples?

i suspect that if he takes your challenge, he will be more effective as a result of this "stunt".

and if he does take your challenge, will you forgive him?
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:21 AM   #27
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky View Post
not disagreeing, but can you give some examples?
Show up at demonstrations or even headline at them. Start and/or fund a foundation with his name. Wear BLM on his shoes during the games?

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i suspect that if he takes your challenge, he will be more effective as a result of this "stunt".
The biggest problem with this stunt is that it gives racists ammo and takes attention off of where it needs to be, which is de-militarizing our police forces and stop letting police officers literally get away with murder where their punishment is often no more severe than paid leave or moved to a desk job. Not to mention ending systematic racism.

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and if he does take your challenge, will you forgive him?
Sure. I don't think what he's doing is anything unforgivable. Like I said, his reason is certainly a worthwhile cause. I just think he's going about it the wrong way. And I also think he's disrespecting a lot of people in doing so. Including his own teammates.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:02 AM   #28
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Re: Kaepernick

I feel like if whoever 'White Guy #1 star player that can do no wrong' did this that everyone would be rallying behind him and saying how brave he is to stand up for minorities.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:07 AM   #29
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Re: Kaepernick

The one thing that everyone in this thread seems to be neglecting is the fact that "Francis Scott Key" the the originator of the star spangled banner was a man who held extremely racist viewpoints and whom himself was a slave owner. In which case why would anyone with an inch of integrity embrace such song.


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Old 09-03-2016, 01:09 AM   #30
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
Everything imo. He's one of the few who has the wealth and platform to make a positive difference without disrespecting his country and all the men and women who have sacrificed for his right to act like a spoiled brat.
From his perspective its more of a criticism and a protest then disrespect. And you might be right that most who served see it as disrespect. But i dont think you could convince my father who served in Vietnam of that, and he waves his flag high in his front yard.


Do you think an atheist kid who sits out the pledge in school is showing disrespect?

Last edited by batair; 09-03-2016 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:50 AM   #31
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Re: Kaepernick

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Do you think an atheist kid who sits out the pledge in school is showing disrespect?
Excellent question. I'd have to say no only it could force a child to say something he or she doesn't and shouldn't have to, believe. Of course, we both know it's the one nation under god that's the problem.

I personally don't have much of a problem with it. I also don't care much that it says, "In god we trust" on our coins. I certainly wouldn't argue if these were abolished and you could convince me to activate for it. But I try to be careful between not respecting religion while respecting tradition.

So I would say if it were not for the "one nation under god" part, that yes. It would be disrespectful not to say the pledge. I take off my hat whenever I'm in attendance and the anthem is played. I think the flag is a very important symbol for any country in what it represents. But i also fully recognize anyone's right to sit out or even burn it if they so choose.

I view non patriotism kind of like I do think everyone has a right to be a racist or engage in hate speech. It should be allowed no matter how tasteless it is. But it's also the right of everyone else to ridicule and boycott those who engage in it.
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Old 09-03-2016, 02:02 AM   #32
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Re: Kaepernick

He sees standing for the anthem in the same way an atheist kid sees standing for the pledge.

The anthem also has God in it. Can an atheist player sit without disrespect?
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:58 AM   #33
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Pipedreamer101 View Post
The one thing that everyone in this thread seems to be neglecting is the fact that "Francis Scott Key" the the originator of the star spangled banner was a man who held extremely racist viewpoints and whom himself was a slave owner. In which case why would anyone with an inch of integrity embrace such song.


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Literally no one in this thread cares about this at all.
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:20 AM   #34
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
Literally no one in this thread cares about this at all.
Do you care to elaborate I'm slightly confused... Are you saying that the origins of said anthem are irrelevant? Or are you implying that the majority of people ITT are sadly ignorant and don't seem to understand what this song actually represents?
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:00 PM   #35
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Re: Kaepernick

Somehow the police have managed to take the low road, threaten to not do their jobs because they're so triggered:

Kaepernick anthem protest: Police threaten boycott
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:34 PM   #36
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Re: Kaepernick

So... we're all waiting for regular season on Thursday evening, and the big Superb Owl rematch @Sports Authority (5:30 pdt), the full slate on Sunday, featuring Dolphins@Seahawks (1:05), and then the MNF doubleheader, capped off with Rams@49ers (7:15). Does any player sit on TNF? J.Lane & C.Kaepernick have already said they're doing it again in Seattle & Santa Clara. It's going to be a fun opening week, that's for sure.

Again, what amazes me isn't the vilifying of Kaepernick, it's the NFL giving up some control of the workplace. From the owner's perspective, that's crazy town, and I can't imagine they don't end up clawing that back.

For the NFL I foresee a sequence of... 1, 3, 7, 27, serious PR problems. If more players start piling on a bandwagon, WTF happens? What if white players start jumping on enmass? What about other employees? What about employees of vendors? What about the fans?

If such a critical mass develops, at some point the anger is going to spread from Kaepernick, the 2nd string QB if he even makes the team, to the NFL, the business. Anyone remember the Dixie Chicks...



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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
Somehow the police have managed to take the low road, threaten to not do their jobs because they're so triggered:

Kaepernick anthem protest: Police threaten boycott
This is interesting for another reason.

With the recent dustup with the WNBA players, the cops in question were moonlighting, they weren't on duty. The union official that defended the boycotting cops was moonlighting too, as he works for their PD union. Also, what wasn't widely reported, the moonlighting cops and the WNBA players had a meeting, and the moonlighting cops happily returned to work.

AFAIK cops aren't allowed to moonlight like this in Cali at all. I'm sure the cops that work Levi's are fully on duty. The union official talking about a boycott would be working for the recognized PD union. This wouldn't be moonlighters walking off, this would be the "Blue Flu"... in other words, a wildcat strike.

Last edited by Shame Trolly !!!1!; 09-03-2016 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:13 PM   #37
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Re: Kaepernick

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The anthem also has God in it. Can an atheist player sit without disrespect?
We're talking about the country Colin Kaepernick lives in right? Where is the word god in the national anthem lyrics?

Look, I just chimed in with my opinion. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer here. I just think the guy's a dick. If I ever get to the point where I don't like my country enough to show enough respect to rise for the national anthem, I'll look for another country to live in. And I'm not saying I'm not close to that now.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:22 PM   #38
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Re: Kaepernick

Kaepernick's contract is already guaranteed this season, so he won't be cut unless they really, really hate him.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:26 PM   #39
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
Somehow the police have managed to take the low road, threaten to not do their jobs because they're so triggered
Instead... they could have taken the high road, and threaten to not do their jobs, until the NFL players concerns are addressed.

Which LOLtastically would be doing the same damn exact thing. Whose side are they on ?/??? LMFAO.
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Old 09-03-2016, 01:49 PM   #40
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
Somehow the police have managed to take the low road, threaten to not do their jobs because they're so triggered:

Kaepernick anthem protest: Police threaten boycott
I don't think its their job, it's a moonlighting gig. Seems like a reasonable form of protest if my understanding is correct.
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Old 09-03-2016, 02:25 PM   #41
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Re: Kaepernick

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I don't think its their job, it's a moonlighting gig. Seems like a reasonable form of protest if my understanding is correct.
Yeh, I stand corrected. It turns out that cops can moonlight in Cali. They can't be in uniform, and at Levi's Stadium they can't be armed. Most departments disallow it however, AFAIK all major jurisdictions in SoCal do. The San Jose PD disallowed working for the 49ers two years ago.

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No person, including off-duty peace officers, shall bring into or possess within Levi’s® Stadium any firearm or dangerous weapon, including, but not limited to, knives, impact weapons, chemical agents, or electronic control devices (e.g., Tasers, stun guns).
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Colin Kaepernick's... protest... have the Santa Clara police union saying its officers might stop working San Francisco 49ers home games... During 49er games, around 70 officers volunteer to work and are paid as security personnel... about one-third of the officers who work during 49ers games are from other Bay Area law enforcement departments. If Santa Clara's police officers refuse to work, others officers might be hired. But... that may create a conflict with the city’s contract with the police union...
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:22 PM   #42
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
We're talking about the country Colin Kaepernick lives in right? Where is the word god in the national anthem lyrics?
"Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!"


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Look, I just chimed in with my opinion. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer here.
You said its disrespectful and called him a spoiled child. Think that means you said it is wrong.

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I just think the guy's a dick. If I ever get to the point where I don't like my country enough to show enough respect to rise for the national anthem, I'll look for another country to live in. And I'm not saying I'm not close to that now.
Yeah he should get out.... Or maybe he should stay and do that whole redressing of the government thing.

Can an atheist sit? What if someone has an issue with the freedom parts because they think those words have never been lived up to for Africans?

Last edited by batair; 09-03-2016 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:34 PM   #43
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by batair View Post
"Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!"
You learn something new every day I guess. Not once in my life have I ever heard the full song and lyrics. And you quoted the very last verse.

But all this is besides the point. He's not sitting because of the lyrics. He's sitting because of systemic racism, much of it at the dirty hands of our government. I get it. But the anthem is meant to pay tribute to the fallen and what the country is "supposed" to be about.

I wouldn't like standing through some of the verses I never heard before. But I would. Just like I don't cross off "In god we trust" on all my money even though I feel like doing just that. He is directing his outrage and indignation in the wrong place, at the wrong venue, imo.

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You said its disrespectful and called him a spoiled child. Think that means you said it is wrong.
I do think it's wrong. But that's just my opinion. Opinions on this are just that. Opinions. Whether it's my opinion or yours, it's subjective not objective. There is no definitive right or wrong here.

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Yeah he should get out.... Or maybe he should stay and do that whole redressing of the government thing.
Again, I think he's directing it in the wrong place and doing more harm than good. That's my opinion.

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Can an atheist sit? What if someone has an issue with the freedom parts because they think those words have never been lived up to for Africans?
Anyone can sit. They can burn the flag or wipe their ass with it if they want to. That's still one of the good things left about living in the U.S.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:41 PM   #44
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Re: Kaepernick

It wont be one of the good things left if many flag worshipers had their way. Worship the actual freedom and liberty. Not a song or peace of cloth representing them.

When he attacks those ideas. Ok go at him.



Here is my personal view. Symbols...**** um. Dont tread on me.

Last edited by batair; 09-03-2016 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:57 PM   #45
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
But all this is besides the point. He's not sitting because of the lyrics. He's sitting because of systemic racism, much of it at the dirty hands of our government. I get it. But the anthem is meant to pay tribute to the fallen and what the country is "supposed" to be about.
The country is supposed to be about freedom and liberty and equality and its not form his perspective. The thing the flag is supposed to stand for form his perspective, is a lie.

The freedom and liberty fought for by many did not give many those freedoms and liberty's. Pretty understandably not everyone is so gung ho about it.

Last edited by batair; 09-03-2016 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:06 PM   #46
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Pipedreamer101 View Post
Do you care to elaborate I'm slightly confused... Are you saying that the origins of said anthem are irrelevant? Or are you implying that the majority of people ITT are sadly ignorant and don't seem to understand what this song actually represents?
I can see how simple could confuse you. Considering the racial attitudes of pretty much the entire world in the 1800's yes, the origins of the anthem are irrelevant. No one goes "that's a pretty good anthem there, too bad it's writer was so racist." You can be sadly ignorant of a lot things, the "real meaning" of the national anthem isn't one of them. It has no bearing on this protest at all.
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:22 PM   #47
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Re: Kaepernick

Most reasonable people are indifferent to standing for the NA or pledge. In the real world you are either a productive member of society or you're not. The sad TRUTH is most people involved in police shootings aren't going to work, or contributing to society in any way.

If you are an upstanding citizen, black or white, you likely don't have to worry about police brutality. And being from Philly, I know plenty of people that were of both races that got the crap kicked out of them by cops, and every time they had it coming.
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Old 09-03-2016, 09:01 PM   #48
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Re: Kaepernick

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It wont be one of the good things left if many flag worshipers had their way. Worship the actual freedom and liberty. Not a song or peace of cloth representing them.
100% agree. In fact, there's not much you said I disagree with so we can end it here. I just happen to think he's being a jerk because all of the focus and attention is going to him and not the actual cause. He's using the wrong venue imo.
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Old 09-03-2016, 09:10 PM   #49
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Re: Kaepernick

The issue mostly lies with the people who are offended, not the ones who support him. Freedom of speech is fundamental for us as a people. In order to grant that right the price you pay is to be offended by some ideas or lines of thought.

Personally, I think he's very brave to do what he did because most people would decline to get involved in the manner he did. He lives a privileged life and he put that at risk for people who don't care about him. I think that's brave.

He'll probably never play another down in the NFL, though.
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Old 09-03-2016, 09:10 PM   #50
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Re: Kaepernick

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
100% agree. In fact, there's not much you said I disagree with so we can end it here. I just happen to think he's being a jerk because all of the focus and attention is going to him and not the actual cause. He's using the wrong venue imo.
Ok fair enough.
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