Maybe that's part of the problem. As a loose-knit twitter campaign, nobody really knows who BLM are or what they stand for. They appear to be anyone who knows how to hit #. Meanwhile, much of the mainstream, even plenty of intelligent, good natured folks who have unknowingly bought into the George Wallace/Oxford conception of racism, keep hearing that "racist cops are murdering innocent black men" and they think people are claiming we have an epidemic of cops intentionally slaughtering innocent minorities in broad daylight because they hate them. It also seems like there are some people who may earnestly believe just that. Would you disagree with that assessment?

Yeah, this is a big part of the problem. I'm going to lay this at the MSMs feet too, but again, I'm not saying there's a conspiracy or anything. It's just how things work. The problem is the above misconception. BLM is a decentralized movement, but there is a core. This is what the core's 'about' says...

Most people aren't going to dictionary-nit on the r-word. As I've explained, that's a trained propagandic response. Most folks DGAF about the r-word. They're going to respond to the totality of the information they've seen. They're going to use Occam's Razor. So no... most folks aren't making the leap: hey, maybe stop gunning black folk down ---> ZOMG there's a whole buncha cops running around killing solely for spite ZOMG.

Some people believe any number of things. A lot of those some people tweet.

http://www.latimes.com/local/califor...nap-story.html

Nothing to see here no siree

I couldn't tell in the video, but maybe that guy had a blank stare.

I see a guy with a knife running towards the police and then away. According to the 911 call, the guy potentially had a gun as well. The police can use there vehicles as a weapon. Don't forget, they are trying to protect other people as well.

How about we all go protests the real problem. Criminals!

I feel awful for what the police have to go through these days.

I do wonder if people in other countries read these threads and just assume Americans are all psychos. People have knives in other countries and even threaten to use them. The cops don't try to run them over in their cars or drop 18 bullets in them.

Also everyone 'potentially' has a gun.

I think it's only when you are on the outside looking in, do you truly see America for what it is.


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Well, I agree most people don't dictionary nit up words, they just assume they know what they mean based on how they learned them and the context in which they are used - only going to the dictionary when there is confusion. That's what we've been at here. You've cleared things up a bit, but I still contend that most people who hear activists claiming racist cops are murdering innocent black men think they are making a positive claim on the level of intent, hatred and even possible premeditation involved, and reaction to such statements is where much of the push back against BLM comes from, at least with regard to normal, non-hateful observers.

On another note, I noticed on their site, BLM quotes Assata Shakur, and I recalled reading of criticism of that. A quick wiki shows she was convicted of murdering a cop, escaped prison and is now on the terrorist most wanted list? What's the deal there? I assume BLM considers her innocent, a freedom fighter?

The part that's unfamiliar is the gun culture. Aside from some country folk hunting birds, guns aren't something the vast majority ever face. So it can be hard to quantify that threat that exists in the US that any individual does have a non-negligible chance of having a gun on or near their person.

That aside, the odd thing watching it from the outside is knowing that there is a very close to 0% chance of someone dying in the same police encounter here in the UK, knowing that if a police officer attempted to run someone over it would be a national incident, and then seeing someone immediately comment to justify that.

It's one of the hypocrisies of American culture that they'll harp on about how free they are and then authorities will kill and incarcerate citizens on a level higher than even China does. That's what it looks like from the outside.

The thing that pisses me off the most is the after-the-fact findings that totally justify these things. Like he had drugs or a gun in his car. So ****ing what? You've got to be facing a threat to your life, not arguing that their could've been such a threat five minutes in the future.

And there's even a huge disconnect between officers shooting people for having guns, or possibly having guns, when owning a gun is a constitutional right. If something is a fundamental right in your country, it shouldn't be something the police can gun you down on the spot for doing. That makes the least sense of anything I've ever heard.

The people on the outside looking in are wondering why you people are so backwards. You're so concerned with how the criminals are treated. You're more concerned about the criminal's rights and the terrorist's rights. Forget that the guy had a weapon or committed a crime or has an extensive criminal record. You don't care what happened prior to a shooting.

How many people have died because of idiot liberal thinking? You people are the root of all that is wrong with this world. You're so insecure, weak, and pathetic. The bad guy's feed off you. You're their energy supply.

I'm concerned about the way criminals are treated because one day I might be suspected of being a criminal. And if that happens, I don't want to be gunned down for reaching in the wrong direction.

Even more so when the 911 call reported that he had a gun. Even more so in a high crime area. Even more so when the guy is running from the cops.

why are you so pro criminal and so anti cop?

You realise you're arguing for the execution of a person pre-trial, hell, even pre-arrest.

If that sometimes has to happen then it's a ****ing tragedy and we ought to be vigilant to ensure that the authorities are transparent and accountable for those actions. They cannot be taken lightly.

That's the problem. You all want to continue to engage in criminal activity, but still be treated nicely afterwards.

If you don't have a criminal record and if you follow the officers commands and dont give them attitude you'll be just fine.

These aren't executions. They are the good guy's defending themselves and others from the bad guy's.

I'm not currently engaging in any criminal activities, nor do I intend to. It may, however, be the case that one day I'm wrongfully suspected of doing so. And, if that happens, I don't expect people in my area to shrug and say "Well, he matched the description of a criminal nearby, and he'd been drinking, so there was no choice".

That it's a case of self-defence is precisely the thing that needs to be demonstrated. It ought not and cannot ever be the case that that is the presumption.

You're ignoring an important point I've been trying to make. The language doesn't work that way. The term 'fascist' is worse than 'racist', as fascists are assumed to be racist and then worse. But answer me seriously, please... when you hear "those fascist thugs are rounding up homesexuals", do you feel that statement is in indictment on the "secret inner heart" of each of those individual thugs? I'm asserting you, like everyone else, will answer 'no'. Is this indeed the case ??

But, if we substitute the milder term "racist cops" for "fascist thugs"... all of a sudden the 'magic' of the r-word kicks in, and now there's some question in your mind about this whole ZOMG hordes of cops are gunning black folks down solely because of personal animus ZOMG thingee. That 'magic' isn't really magic, of course. It's a trained propagandic response. Just like whining about the ZOMG sandy-vagina PC-police running amok ZOMG is a trained propagandic response. Most people aren't trained like this. It's gotta be like only 10% of the population. Most people DGAF bout this "r-word magic", and are perfectly able to correctly infer context.

But we don't need to treat this as some hypothetical.

To bring things back to topic, let's consider the words of C.Kaepernick. Nobody who is being even the slightest bit intellectually honest is confused what Kaepernick is saying. Kaepernick isn't prating on about any 'secret inner heart' crapolla. More telling is the thousands of people saying they have solidarity with Kaepernick. None of them has felt a need to clarify regarding this 'secret inner heart' crap. Thousands more have said that they agree with the pro athlete's cause, or at least agree with their 'right' to protest, but they're bitter about the anthem. No significant number of these folk have felt a need to clarify regarding this 'secret inner heart' crap either.

Bottom line: nobody of good faith is confused about this 'secret inner heart' shiz. The only peeps spewing this crap are elements of the MSM, which are quite obviously spewing propaganda... and the ~10% of peeps high on that kool aid.

Is it your position that running from the police in a "high-crime" area means you can be justifiably shot by police?

Didn't you know Congress upgraded that to a capital crime?

Well, Kaep has done a pretty good amount of clarifying, but it's interesting you think only 10% of people interpret those sorts of statements directed at police (calling them racist murderers and so on) to be attacks on the individual and not just the institution. I would put the number closer to 90%. If it were only the 10% who have been trained by the propaganda of the MSM, then it wouldn't really be in the main stream would it?

Why don't you hear Hillary (and pretty much any other major politician) make those sorts of statements? Why are they so careful to clarify most cops are good, brave, etc., and then focus on how we can fix the criminal justice *system*? I think the answer is obvious. Most people think calling cops racist murders is a statement about them personally, not just the institution as you claim.

Well YMMV I guess. Like I said, In my experience most peeps are going to look at the civil rights struggle in a holistic manner, they're going to be aware that police brutality is an issue going back decades, and that reforming policing isn't simply a matter of getting rid of a few bad apple cops. Nobody, regardless of their "side", literally believe it's all and only about some individual secret inner evil. Most people don't buy into conspiracy theories.

You have to understand that there's an organized opposition to the civil rights struggle. From before the days of segregationists like G.Wallace popularizing this new normal redefinition, up to certain think tanks today, they're churning out that propaganda. A certain percentage of folks are constantly getting their heads filled with this 'secret inner heart' crap. This is the world we live in.

So... if you're desperately concerned about doing 'therapy' to improve our race problems, as you fervently claim you are, what's a better strategy? No matter what you say or do, there's going to be a certain number of peeps whose head has been filled with "why do they riot when it's a trigger happy black cop". There's no way of avoiding this sad fact, it can't be wished away.

Because that's what you're doing, you're monday morning QBing IRL activists strategy & tactics. Which is, as I've mentioned, absurd since you have -zero- experience, and know of -zero- studies, to back up your tactical hunches.

Let's bring it back to topic. These C.Kaepernick inspired protests stated purpose is to "start a conversation". They've been successful almost beyond imagination. But FoldnDark is MMQBing the pro athlete's tactics. Obviously, he feels different tactics would have been even more successful, more successful than almost beyond imagination even. Those better tactics are _____________ ??

Just a reminder in any other industrialized country in the world the odds that that guy would have died are near zero. If that's true, killing people unnecessarily mean the good guys aren't really being that good.

Personally I believe in America where we have a strong constitution to protect people from unnecessary state violence and that we aren't like the Phillipines where the president can just order thousands of people killed but that's just me being a patriot and good American

No, think what Kaep is doing is great, bringing attention to the issue, generating conversations. One of the many conversations generated by those protests is what people mean by "racist cops are murdering black people." I'm just telling you how I and pretty much everyone I know, and I assume most of the rest of the people in this country and probably the English speaking world interpret that sort of statement.