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Old 03-15-2017, 09:48 PM   #326
TomCowley
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by Black Peter View Post
It's not a threshold they should have to clear. It's just that they are more likely to pay taxes than a poor person who is paid to have more babies. That was the comparison i was asked to make.
No, it wasn't.

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What level of skilled labor do you think an immigrant family (say 2 30-yr-old parents and 2.5 kids) needs to have to be a net positive to the current americans if allowed to come?
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:13 PM   #327
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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I wasn't even talking about restricting freedoms. Someone ITT was saying we should pay poor people to produce more babies so that they can help in the labor force. Meanwhile we're about to have millions of people losing their jobs to machines.

But I'm not automatically opposed to a restriction on freedom. What good are freedoms if you're shoulder to shoulder with everyone and barely have anything to eat?
So you don't care about people's freedom to have as many kids as they want, since you are trying to curb population growth?

You realize that when machines take over 1m jobs, the economy has expanded and the total number of jobs also goes up, right? I mean you can make a similar argument about bigger trucks or more powerful trains, bigger airplanes that carry more passengers/cargo, etc. if you consider the amount of stuff they produce as static, all those things cost jobs, but in reality people continue to consume more, do more, create more products, create new jobs. I mean, you get that, right? Right?
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Old 03-16-2017, 03:59 AM   #328
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by sylar View Post
So you don't care about people's freedom to have as many kids as they want, since you are trying to curb population growth?

You realize that when machines take over 1m jobs, the economy has expanded and the total number of jobs also goes up, right? I mean you can make a similar argument about bigger trucks or more powerful trains, bigger airplanes that carry more passengers/cargo, etc. if you consider the amount of stuff they produce as static, all those things cost jobs, but in reality people continue to consume more, do more, create more products, create new jobs. I mean, you get that, right? Right?
Automation can grow the economy and might still be a net negative for the majority of people.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:04 AM   #329
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Automation can grow the economy and might still be a net negative for the majority of people.
Might. Historically it's far from certain.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:17 AM   #330
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Re: Immigration and refugees

Looking at the past 40 years almost all the growth in productivity went to the top x%.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:19 AM   #331
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Eh no, we should be curbing population growth, not accelerating it. Especially with machines taking our jerbs. (But I'm in favor of letting immigrants in.)
Nothing stops population growth like living in a rich country.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:33 AM   #332
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
No, it wasn't.
Yes, it was.

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Originally Posted by TomCowley
Why not just pay a bunch of already-here poors cash to have more babies?
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:46 AM   #333
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre View Post
Looking at the past 40 years almost all the growth in productivity went to the top x%.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:01 PM   #334
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Yes, it was.
Try answering the ONLY question in the post YOU ACTUALLY QUOTED AND RESPONDED TO. Jesus christ.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:18 PM   #335
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
Try answering the ONLY question in the post YOU ACTUALLY QUOTED AND RESPONDED TO. Jesus christ.
lol... you're not very smart are you? Try to keep track of your posts.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=314
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:35 PM   #336
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Re: Immigration and refugees

Try keeping track of your own posts first.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=319

Then keep track of mine.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=316

This isn't difficult. You just know you're about to get owned if you continue so you're tarding it up for obfuscation. Well played or something?
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:56 PM   #337
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Re: Immigration and refugees

Well, you just proved yourself wrong. But you probably don't even see it. lol

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You just know you're about to get owned
I see that you're one of those little squeakers that cares about winning arguments on the internet.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:11 PM   #338
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Well, you just proved yourself wrong. But you probably don't even see it. lol



I see that you're one of those little squeakers that cares about winning arguments on the internet.
Nice forum, Chez. Anybody else want to take a shot at

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley
What level of skilled labor do you think an immigrant family (say 2 30-yr-old parents and 2.5 kids) needs to have to be a net positive to the current americans if allowed to come?
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:37 PM   #339
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Re: Immigration and refugees

47.5 skill points or higher
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:52 PM   #340
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Re: Immigration and refugees

I think the minimum* int. dex. con. and str. to qualify* as a real* exceptional* American* contributor* are 13. Magic-users, Druids, Bards, Good Clerics, Elves, Gnomes, and Dwarves* need not apply.

*other terms, conditions, or groups maybe applicable.
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Old 03-16-2017, 03:04 PM   #341
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Re: Immigration and refugees

lmao
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Old 03-16-2017, 03:09 PM   #342
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre View Post
Looking at the past 40 years almost all the growth in productivity went to the top x%.
what that tells me is that it's a resource allocation problem.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:11 PM   #343
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by sylar View Post
what that tells me is that it's a resource allocation problem.
that depends on what your goals are. Instead of a resource allocation problem, some people would call that a resource allocation success.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:14 PM   #344
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre View Post
Nothing stops population growth like living in a rich country.
This is VERY true.
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:44 PM   #345
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Old 03-26-2017, 08:35 AM   #346
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
What level of skilled labor do you think an immigrant family (say 2 30-yr-old parents and 2.5 kids) needs to have to be a net positive to the current americans if allowed to come?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
Nice forum, Chez. Anybody else want to take a shot at
The answer to your question is obviously zero.

But what's your point?
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Old 03-26-2017, 01:33 PM   #347
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by 13ball View Post
The answer to your question is obviously zero.

But what's your point?
Are you actually saying importing adults/families with no skills is a benefit to existing Americans or just semantikesing "needs" for corner cases of value?
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Old 03-26-2017, 01:47 PM   #348
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by TomCowley View Post
Are you actually saying importing adults/families with no skills is a benefit to existing Americans or just semantikesing "needs" for corner cases of value?
Immigrations isn't an important aspect of looking at a value of a person, even though that turn of phrase is callous. There are plenty of citizens here who are at best only as skilled/educated/etc as any refugee. Do you consider their value a net-negative too? I am asking because depending on your answer, I can give you a counter argument.
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Old 03-26-2017, 01:59 PM   #349
TomCowley
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Originally Posted by sylar View Post
Immigrations isn't an important aspect of looking at a value of a person, even though that turn of phrase is callous. There are plenty of citizens here who are at best only as skilled/educated/etc as any refugee. Do you consider their value a net-negative too? I am asking because depending on your answer, I can give you a counter argument.
Of course, the average trailer park inhabitant is a net negative to the rest of society.
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:08 PM   #350
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Re: Immigration and refugees

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Of course, the average trailer park inhabitant is a net negative to the rest of society.
Great. So is it better to focus on weeding out net-negatives from our society, or is it better to focus on improving their value through some means like healthcare/education/job training?
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