That's racist

Please try to make some sense.

BEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

You dont want to sound like missiledog invoking the 'race to the bottom' bogeyman all the time. The reality is far more complex from that.

The reality is that there are more people than jobs, but the idea that if we can produce more food/energy etc with less labour that that is somehow a bad thing is perverse.

In any case there is no excuse for keeping billions poor so a few 100 million can be rich.

Not really that's the way business works. You might have heard it often but that does not invalidate it.

I don't think it's as many as hundreds of millions. It certainly won't be in the future. Those with a stake in the big businesses are becoming rich whilst the workers are becoming exploited. The politicians are serving corporations and not their people. I don't now how we can get away from this situation.

http://economy.money.cnn.com/2013/06...verage-worker/

Its a distorted soundbite of a facet of how business works, businesses thrive by providing stuff we had before cheaper and better, and by providing stuff we didn't even have before. This is all great, we might think some get too much but its a drop in the ocean compared to how much value is provided - especially to the bottom.

In our lifetimes we have probably seen by far the greatest improvement for the poor that has ever happened in human history and people like you somehow confuse this with a race to the bottom.


There is no solution to the problem you see, fortunately its a mirage. Barring apocalypse the future will be far better and only a few loonies will go on about how much better it was in the early 21st century.

This planet has been "racing" to the bottom for the last 100 years. Not bad, I'll take another 100 years of it.

Maybe the Africans will have their turn at "racing" to the bottom and they'll finally be able to eat.

If you throw enough fruits in the volcano one day it'll stop erupting.

Well, the benefits of increased productivity have to go somewhere. Guess who gets to decide.

You don't seem to understand how decent working conditions came about. It was not because employers were feeling generous it happened through the efforts of organised labour unions. It is more difficult for this to work abroad as the companies will simply move to a different cheaper country. It is far harder to establish unions anyway. Often the workers who try are murdered. In the past Western countries also benefited from plundering the resources and labour of countries they had conquered. Today the third world countries would benefit if we left them alone and allowed them to trade freely. This won't happen because the corporations want to exploit these countries and the biggest losers will be workers living in Western countries. They will have to compete on wages but will not enjoy the lower cost of living of those abroad. This is already happening in the UK. The workers from the former Eastern bloc only need a fraction of the pay to live well in their home countries and this is driving down the wages for everybody.

Some truth but not the whole truth

Employers have to compete for those workers and that means offering them something better. Bad as conditions were during the industrial revolution people, flocked to those jobs because it meant an increase in their wealth. Alongside that food, clothing, warmth shelter etc became dramatically cheaper which benefited everybody.

Overall nothing at all like a race to the bolttom, that's simply not how it works.

Yes its a transfer of wealth to the poorer people. I've no idea why you would think that's a bad thing. An interesting time will be when there are no poorer people, until then capitalism is doing an awesome job in that regard.

Study harder in school next time, kids.

There is a practically unlimited supply of poor people willing to work for £1 a day. They are effectively slaves. We got a glimpse of that reality when we found out what the conditions were like for the Bangladeshi workers who died in the bulding collapse. They were making clothes for companies like GAP. Capitalism isn't working except for those in charge. You are very naive if you believe that the big corporations will ever allow the poor countries to develop. They want to exploit them forever.

They are not.

The corporations have no say in the matter, outsource jobs to poor countries and the countries get richer. Deny them those jobs as you seem to advocate and they will remain devastatingly poor. You have it arse over tit.

"Despite Walmart's efforts to fight it, Bangladesh recently increased the minimum wage for garment industry workers to $43 a month."

The workers earn 11c to 17c an hour and are expected to make ten pairs of jeans an hour. This industry acounts for 93% of Bangladesh's export trade. Workers who have tried to organise labour unions have been murdered. Maybe we will get some 25c an hour jobs in the UK when we are starving as well because the welfare state has been dismantled to please the corporations. All hail capitalism !

None of that is any excuse for you to condemn them to devastating poverty.

I am not condemning anyone to anything I am just describing what is going on. The corporations have created this situation by figuratively sticking their boots on the throats of countries like Bangladesh. Hypocritically Obama is blaming the Bangladeshis for the results of actions of American corporations but then Obama dances to the tune of the corporations.

I'm sure China would be a lot better today if multinationals didn't pour hundreds of billions of dollars into the country over the last 20 years.

China would be allowed to trade rice and beans freely with the rest of the world and would have catapulted itself into a world power off agriculture!

Genius re-writing of history.

WTF do 3rd world African countries without oil and minerals have to offer in trade to the rest of the planet besides cheap working labor? NOTHING.

This has been the case for the last 100 years in every single country. Except you are completely wrong. Last time I checked world GDP 2013 >>>>> world GDP 1913.

You don't even know American history do you.

Who do you think built the cities of America off 1$ a day?

And wtf are you talking about corps not allowing poor countries to develop? WTF happened to China over the last 20 years? Did China just become the 2nd largest GDP country in the world by accident?

WTF AM I READING.

okay as long as you dont want to stop jobs going to poor people I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about.

I'd argue for a way I believe would do it better but keeping the jobs in rich countries is not the answer. Currently government is doing a pretty meh job but the last thing the world needs is banning 'evil' corporations from offering poor people/countries desperately needed jobs - fortunately its such a win-win-win that no-one is seriously asking them to.

How the **** do you explain this?



Shanghai 1990



2010

Trade unions?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using 2+2 Forums

Another false dichotomy. I do not believe that we should allow the corporations to get richer and richer on what is effectively slave labour.


The workers are not "winning". They are subsisting as practical slaves in places like Bangladesh and we are being asked to compete with them to keep us down. The system is for the benefit of the corporation owners. They are winning hands down because they have bought the politicians as well.

Force people to fund retirement plans, call it a tax