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Originally Posted by Lapidator
Who smashed Libya?
The Obama administration.
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Al Qaeda was "next to nothing" before 2001? You don't know very much about it if this is what you think.
It didn't have many members. It wasn't able to do much. It essentially accomplished nothing more than a series of OKC stye bombings, an attack carried out by one lone wolf guy (if you forget about John Doe #2 which I'm positive you have) in America. It was not much compared to ISIS.
Please tell me about how mighty and grand Al Quaeda was.
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And then your mobster cousin forces you to give up all females in your family to be forcibly raped to provide children for the next generation. He tells you that you have to pray his way, or he will douse you with gasoline and light you on fire.
Good choice.
People are willing to take on the risk of associating with violent movements/leaders when facing relentless attacks from outsiders. For example, the Khmer Rouge was nothing before Kissinger inadvertently created it with his terrorist, mass murdering bombing campaigns. There are many historical examples of this phenomenon, and you don't have to dig too deep to find them.
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If this were to happen then the Saudis would do these things in order:
This is going to be fun. I thank you in advance.
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1) The Saudis would immediately buy weapons from France and Russia and the US would have no "seat at the table".
Or, we could strengthen the U.N. by extracting our hypocrisy. We shouldn't be selling any weapons to the Saudis, and neither should any U.N. members, because the Saudis are human rights violators who wage war crimes and the U.S. flaunts international law by selling them weapons. We have a lot of other sticks we could use against them. [QUOTE]
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2) The Saudis would immediately try to purchase nuclear weapons from N.Korea and/or China, and the US would have no "seat at the table".
GTFO. They are nothing without us. Did Iraq get nukes from China? Did Iran? We could put tremendous pressure on them to stop the Anti-West propaganda, to give some concessions on human rights. We don't because we like the way they are. Saudis Arabia might be the most oppressive country in the world, and we like it when the suppress regional movements toward democracy. Dictators just want their cut. A democracy wants the people's cut, and that's a terrifying thought for us.
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3) The US Navy would be evicted from all forward operating bases in Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, and Saudi Arabia. The US would no longer have a stabilizing presence in the MEG.
Stabilizing presence? Did your eyes start to water as you wrote that? Or do you have a super-human tolerance for bull****?
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Fanatical Islamist groups around the world decide that the King of S.A. should no longer be the custodian of Mecca and Medina and decide to incite war on the Arabian Peninsula to liberate it.
They've already decided that. One of the main reasons they have done so is the Royal invitation of the U.S. military onto the supposed sovereign land.
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FWIW, I prefer that US (and UK and NATO) have a seat at the table in the Middle East.
We've had a seat at the head of the table for quite awhile. Do you prefer the results you see? How long do you think the oil is going to last? What I hear is that China is leading in developing green technology. From what I hear fossil fuels are destroying the planet. There are reasons why some people, those who have a tremendous amount to lose, want to keep sitting at that morbid table. But you don't. You think you do though, and I find that fascinating. How does big oil and weapons producers get you to think that you stand to gain a damn thing through their pernicious greed?