Personal attacks should not be allowed, you ****ing moron.

I say we keep the ban on personal attacks, but we we mod even more people with serious developmental disabilities and no apparent political views of their own and institute an ADDITIONAL ban on posts about politics. With any luck this forum can exclusively be mouthbreathing racists swapping links to Billy Joel music video youtubes by 2018, and they should all be moderators.

I hadn't given this angle much thought, but it might be fun. Needs a new pole option though

I can't get over how dope that Mr. Spriggs commercial is.

One thing I'm convinced of is that chez is operating in good faith. I thought so before I joined the mods, and all of our interactions convinced me further.

The fundamental problem is not that chez has been dishonest about what he wants to do. There are two basic problems as I see it. The first is just that a lot of you really dislike chez. That problem is summed up pretty well by bladesman here: "We all want chez to fail." I disagree with some of the reasons some of you have for taking this attitude, but obviously it's hard to effectively mod a forum where so many people have that attitude, justified or not.

The second problem is that there really does appear to be a disconnect between the forum the mods want to have (and I include myself) and the forum a lot of the rest of you want to have. It seems clear to me that the vision of the forum I tried to outline isn't very popular. Nor is chez's. And our ideas are pretty similar in spirit. No doubt this problem contributes to the first problem, although the first pre-exists chez being a mod here.

I don't know what the solution to those problems should be, but the problem isn't that chez is disingenuous. He was given the forum to mod and he tried to implement his view of it, while also trying to compromise on some of these issues, i.e. with the !!! threads. As he said, it wasn't his idea to end them, it was mine. It's the part where we try to make the forum what we want instead of what the majority of posters want that is causing most of the problem, imo, but that is not because chez is dishonest.

1. LOL

2. How do you imagine this happened? Literally the entire community just woke up and decided we'd dislike chez for no reason?

I know how it happened. I was there for all of it. As I've said before, I too have had plenty of criticism for him related to all of that. I don't see much point in arguing about this because I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I accept the attitude represented in that bladesman post as a given, and I'm not asking anyone to change their mind. My point is only that it should be clear how it creates a problem for modding the forum that goes beyond disagreements about the rules. If many posters have a primary goal of seeing chez fail, well I expect they are always going to win that battle.

Then it's super weird how you're framing him as some sort of victim here. Like, "Oh golly gee, why do these mean politics regs want chez to fail???" Get the **** out with that.

I was pretty critical of chez with regards to the Bruce Who Shall Not Be Named imbroglio, but I agree that he does seem to be operating in good faith. He has deleted posts and given sanctions to Love Sosa and No Quarter and wil.

The problem I have is philosophical. If you are constantly correcting the worst posters with odious opinions, but never banning them, then all you are doing is training them to present their same odious views in more palatable ways. So you time-out people who say" blacks are genetically inferior," but those people will come back and say something like "black culture is inferior" and this statement stands, and because it stands people are left with the misleading impression that it is therefore not racist, even though the source should tell us all we need to know.

Of course it gets far more complicated than my example, but the net effect is that the same core ideas are expressed in ways that fog over their true origins and motivations. In my view, this is worse than just letting overtly racist statements stand and face judgement. (I know the Trollys and Flys would rather just ban all racists, and that's fine too.) Maybe chez thinks that by time outs and deletions he's teaching people not to be racist, but in reality he's just teaching people to be stealth racists. That's not an improvement.

Also, look at the mods that chez has brought in:

whosnext
well named

WN=White Nationalism

TRY NOT TO MAKE IT SO OBVIOUS GUYS

I don't agree that what I wrote portrays him as a victim. I said that I disagreed with some of the reasons people have for taking that stance towards him, and I disagreed with the claim that he was acting in bad faith. In any case, my point was more descriptive than anything. Which I hope I have now adequately clarified.

Y'all failed to do anything but act like self-important, willfully un-educable zealots. Haha. Chez is not only still here, but a mod. Haha.

Agree to disagree about chez acting in good faith.

But strongly agree that it makes zero sense for chez to be moderator when he was near-universally reviled in both politics forums. You actually post here and are generally well regarded. Obviously that other guy who no one ever heard of shouldn't be a moderator in a forum he literally never posted in and (according to him) only occasionally browsed.

This forum only needs one mod and it's obvious who it should be.

lol "good faith" Dude flat-out lied about why he temp-banned LG.

But yeah. The main problem is a universally disliked mod with a universally disliked vision for the forum. The solution to this problem is obvious.

I voted to allow personal attacks because I've been brainwashed into it by the right.

I think the number of mods this forum needs depends greatly on its rules, which dictate how much work there will be.

Re. chez - I rarely visited the SMP forum and don't know much about the Bruce saga, so had a very open mind wrt to chez's modding here. I believe he's generally acting in good faith but his rules were too numerous and complicated, and I loathe the idea of deleting posts that break no forum wide rules without at least dropping them into a common area with a brief explanatory note.

Yeah, I disagree with that claim too. I think it's pretty clear, with two exceptions, that he's been trying to do his thingee in good faith. Two points, one which I pointed out ahead of times: Calling the PC rules by the name "PC Rules" was just terrible branding, which was bound to blow back with the deplorables, like it did. That mistake has finally been corrected. In the same vein, "time out" is also terrible branding. I'd suggest "Temp-Exile" as an analog of "Temp-Ban".

The two exceptions are the de facto no-quoting rule, which only purpose seems to preclude mentioning you-know-who, and more alarmingly... reversing all these exiles and bans.

Give the people what they want? Nobody wants those fools !!!1!

And those fools with their large & odious posting volume in this small and shrinking backwater pond of a forum are what makes Baja Politards what it is today. There ain't never going to be "reasoned discussion" with those fools spamming every thread. Basically lol@ that being a goal... as long as this forum remains the dumping ground from that forum.

Just bring back one !!! thread like the bad poster thread so the trolls will have their place to bich about the other trolls and purge their internet road rage. Move all personal attacks to that thread. If that's what they want, then let them eat ****.

Y'know, in a further example of this forum not needing to exist, a simple year-round festivus thread in P Main would coopt the entire reason this forum was created.

Some posters reeeeally don't want any wrongthink at 2+2. Keep up the good fight yall, I bet you'll cow mat eventually.

Why wouldn't a discussion forum be similar to real life discussion? Sometimes things get heated, sometimes people say bad things about each other. In real life you can walk away. On the forum you can go to another thread.

I realize there are some folks here who are weak and can't handle the truth. These people have a choice. They can go to the little kids forum and feel safe or try to stick it out in the big boy forum.

If I read something offensive(not gonna happen) I would turn to something else. Why do you want to live in a fake environment were every word is subject to censorship?

I proudly vote to to bring back P unchained

Nah, this forum was created to contain LirvA.

Chez must give the power back to the people or he may face impeachment!

General Pinochez's power grab put to an end by incompetence. You're supposed to pick mods who agree with you on how to run the forum...