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Old 05-13-2017, 02:03 AM   #551
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by pokerodox View Post
I don't really like the Socratic method, or it's evil twin, twenty questions. But I'll play along for a little bit here, by building your argument for you, or guessing what I think is your argument from your post of Ann Coulter's books for sale. Then you can straighten me out into what you're actually trying to say. Then I can reply to that.

So I think you're saying that because her books are readily for sale, the students that invited her to speak already have an avenue for that speech. Therefore, their speech is not being suppressed. Is that right?
Eh, close enough.
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:14 AM   #552
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by ogallalabob View Post
Doubt this is as absolute as you believe. If the government (whether police or public university) takes action by issuing stand down orders to the police/security, cancelling the speech because it feared violence or treating groups differently depending on the speech it could violate equal protection, due process and/or freedom of speech. There is at least some evidence that Berkely (public university) treated the Republican groups speaker different from other speakers. Doubt the Republican groups lawsuit will be thrown out without a trial.
The discussion has mostly been about the actions of protesters, not the University (of California at Berkeley). Equal protection and due process are also separate and possibly irrelevant, but quite separate anyway.
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:22 AM   #553
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by pokerodox View Post
I think the idea that certain ideas (or people, holy ****), should not be heard is horrible.

By "trolling the other side," I was saying that it looked like you were saying that inflammatory statement just to get a reaction from the left. I'm on the right, and I can't stand that statement. You sound like a totalitarian when you say that certain people shouldn't be allowed to speak.
at least mongo is honest. most ppl on the right agree with him but they are just careful not to express it. but when it comes time to mass-arrest protesters and throw hudge sentences a them, or arrest journalists investigating, they are consistently in favor of the govt tactics.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:30 AM   #554
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Re: Free speech

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I agree totally except I happen to disagree about free speech

There was a case in the UK recently where a black women was sitting in 1st class on the train with her child and a white man was telling her to get out because she didn't belong there. It ended up in court and he got found guilty - I can't remember the punishment but it wasn't prison or anything ridiculous.

I think that's a good thing and I don't want to see a viable defense of 'a right to free speech'.
Da, that is not free speech that is harassment. If a man follows two feet behind me and says "I hate women" for endless hours he is harassing me not using free speech. He is inside my personal space. He is causing a disturbance.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:36 AM   #555
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Re: Free speech

Berkley was on RT (English language global news station with Russian perspective). Berkley college was used as example of American Universities intolerance to open ideas. I will try to find the clip on YouTube and post the link here. I wonder if the students of Berkley would think proudly of themselves if they knew they were used as propaganda for RT news.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:36 AM   #556
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Re: Free speech

Irina, are you familiar with Donald Trump's remarks about women? If so, what do you think of them, and what impression do they give you of him?
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:52 AM   #557
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by AllCowsEatGrass View Post
Irina, are you familiar with Donald Trump's remarks about women? If so, what do you think of them, and what impression do they give you of him?
I assume you refer to the crude remark he said on the bus? I have heard worse words from my father and uncles when they talk among themselves. My father and my uncles highly respect women however they are often crude when they talk among themselves and they think no one hears them. They do not talk crudely directly to women or around women (they did not know I overhear them because they are loud speaking when they are drunk). They treat women very respectfully. I think many men behave this way. Men are crude when among themselves, this is not a secret.

So I do not judge president Trump simply because he talks crudely to another man on a bus he thinks is private. I judge Trump based on his actions towards women. I have read that he hired women for management in his business many times. I see his wife and daughters speak fondly of him. Thus I do not think Trump is disrespectful of women. Many American women must agree because Trump won the election.

President Trump has issues and flaws to overcome if he wants to become an effective president. For Americans to concentrate on manufactured flaws shows pettiness.
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Old 05-22-2017, 04:23 AM   #558
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by Irina View Post
I assume you refer to the crude remark he said on the bus? I have heard worse words from my father and uncles when they talk among themselves. My father and my uncles highly respect women however they are often crude when they talk among themselves and they think no one hears them. They do not talk crudely directly to women or around women (they did not know I overhear them because they are loud speaking when they are drunk). They treat women very respectfully. I think many men behave this way. Men are crude when among themselves, this is not a secret.

So I do not judge president Trump simply because he talks crudely to another man on a bus he thinks is private. I judge Trump based on his actions towards women. I have read that he hired women for management in his business many times. I see his wife and daughters speak fondly of him. Thus I do not think Trump is disrespectful of women. Many American women must agree because Trump won the election.

President Trump has issues and flaws to overcome if he wants to become an effective president. For Americans to concentrate on manufactured flaws shows pettiness.
+1
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Old 05-22-2017, 04:49 AM   #559
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by Irina View Post
I assume you refer to the crude remark he said on the bus? I have heard worse words from my father and uncles when they talk among themselves. My father and my uncles highly respect women however they are often crude when they talk among themselves and they think no one hears them. They do not talk crudely directly to women or around women (they did not know I overhear them because they are loud speaking when they are drunk). They treat women very respectfully. I think many men behave this way. Men are crude when among themselves, this is not a secret.

So I do not judge president Trump simply because he talks crudely to another man on a bus he thinks is private. I judge Trump based on his actions towards women. I have read that he hired women for management in his business many times. I see his wife and daughters speak fondly of him. Thus I do not think Trump is disrespectful of women. Many American women must agree because Trump won the election.

President Trump has issues and flaws to overcome if he wants to become an effective president. For Americans to concentrate on manufactured flaws shows pettiness.

I think you're referring to Trumps comments where he said, to paraphrase, "when you're rich they (women) let you do anything? You can walk right up to them and grab them by the pussy, they love it." Is that correct?

That's just one of many. During a debate in the Republican primary, Megan Kelly was asking him tough questions and he responded by speculating that she was "bleeding out of her you know what." He later tweeted and called her a bimbo.


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Old 05-22-2017, 08:47 AM   #560
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by Irina View Post
I assume you refer to the crude remark he said on the bus? I have heard worse words from my father and uncles when they talk among themselves. My father and my uncles highly respect women however they are often crude when they talk among themselves and they think no one hears them.
Demeaning people is respectful as long as you do it behind their back?

Quote:
They do not talk crudely directly to women or around women (they did not know I overhear them because they are loud speaking when they are drunk). They treat women very respectfully. I think many men behave this way. Men are crude when among themselves, this is not a secret.
There's a difference between being crude and talking about grabbing women without their permission because you are rich and famous.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:43 AM   #561
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Re: Free speech

hans herman hoppe is the only person I've heard speak intelligently on "free speech".

Quote:
n a covenant...among proprietor and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property, no such thing as a right to free (unlimited) speech exists, not even to unlimited speech on one’s own tenant-property. One may say innumerable things and promote almost any idea under the sun, but naturally no one is permitted to advocate ideas contrary to the very covenant of preserving and protecting private property, such as democracy and communism. There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and removed from society.
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:22 PM   #562
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Re: Free speech

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Old 05-24-2017, 10:50 PM   #563
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Re: Free speech

What are you saying Einbert? Can we have some context?
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:56 PM   #564
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Re: Free speech

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What are you saying Einbert? Can we have some context?
As far as the US government goes freedom of speech and the press are part of the first amendment. Einbert is saying that this guy, a typical Republican, body slams and punches reporters when they ask questions that he doesn't like.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:51 AM   #565
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Re: Free speech

What pokerodox is doing here is known as "sea-lioning." It's a tactic designed to shut down discussions.

Quote:
Sea-Lioning is an Internet slang term referring to intrusive attempts at engaging an unwilling debate opponent by feigning civility and incessantly requesting evidence to back up their claims. The term was coined in September 2014 by anti-GamerGate Internet users to mock perceived online discussion tactics employed by GamerGate supporters.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:57 AM   #566
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Re: Free speech

I get the barking interruptions but I don't get sea lIons feigning civility.

I think he was feigning ignorance. I only answered so I could say that the idiot's behavior was typical for republicans. That being a very thinly veiled shot at pokerodox himself, but don't tell chez.

Last edited by microbet; 05-25-2017 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:04 AM   #567
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Re: Free speech

Feigning ignorance and asking others to explain fairly simple or self-explanatory things endlessly is part of sea-lioning too. They make it look innocent like they are just trying to understand the issue, but then they endlessly ask you the same/similar questions in an attempt to waste your time and derail the conversation.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:11 AM   #568
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
As far as the US government goes freedom of speech and the press are part of the first amendment. Einbert is saying that this guy, a typical Republican, body slams and punches reporters when they ask questions that he doesn't like.
Ya but it's better than sexting a 15 year old.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:11 AM   #569
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Re: Free speech

Well, I'm just wasting time here too, but I'm a bit of an amateur ethologist and I'm trying to get to whether sea lIons are really a good choice for this meme. I don't have a good animal alternative though. The best I've got so far is when a cat puts its butthole up in your face and acts like that's cool.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:13 AM   #570
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by einbert View Post
Feigning ignorance and asking others to explain fairly simple or self-explanatory things endlessly is part of sea-lioning too. They make it look innocent like they are just trying to understand the issue, but then they endlessly ask you the same/similar questions in an attempt to waste your time and derail the conversation.
But what's you're context here?
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:15 AM   #571
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Re: Free speech

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Ya but it's better than sexting a 15 year old.
That's true.

The assault isn't that big a thing really. I don't care about a body slam and a few punches with no long term injuries. The **** part is the Trump's America part where the press is attacked because that's what fascists do.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:17 AM   #572
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Re: Free speech

The Republican party has fully converted into the party of Fascism.

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Old 05-25-2017, 10:19 AM   #573
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Re: Free speech

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I didn't see anything.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:20 AM   #574
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
That's true.

The assault isn't that big a thing really. I don't care about a body slam and a few punches with no long term injuries. The **** part is the Trump's America part where the press is attacked because that's what fascists do.
The guy was with the guardian.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:22 AM   #575
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Re: Free speech

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Originally Posted by einbert View Post
The Republican party has fully converted into the party of Fascism.

Before yesterday they had not fully converted. Now it's official. I'm so glad to be alive to see this, er! I mean here this.
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