This sort of **** is why it's so important not to concede bull****. OP has, for some reason(he's an idiot) conceded FoldN's framing of the issue that he was fired for thoughtcrime instead of the actual issue that he wrote a memo that was seriously bad for his employer and his future there. Not his thoughts, not his views, his ACTIONS. He presumably believed all this **** before he wrote the memo and wasn't fired.

Do you not have a job? Do any of you have a job?

Everyone is different, except those cooperative women are the leftist same.

Just for the record, this is yet another link to the same Quillette article that FoldN has conservatively linked in this thread half a dozen times already. Even after people were laughing about him doing that ****.

Okay, I don't think people should be fired for their views on women either. If he mistreats his co-workers, fine, fire him. If he is the HR director, his views are plausibly relevant to the job, so fine, fire him if you want. Otherwise, let people say what they want imo.

You should pull your head out of your ass. The differences he posted are very small and completely unsuited for determining success or even aptitude as an engineer.

Do you have a job? What industry? How long have you been out of school?

LDO. Did you read what I wrote?

Of ****ing course when they say "you're encouraged to have open discussions" they don't mean anything goes. You have to have a pathological lack of social awareness not to figure that out before puberty.

Seriously, are you genuinely surprised that "be open" doesn't really mean "anything goes"?

I teach martial arts a bit. At the weekend I asked a few kids "Any questions?". I'm pretty sure they all figured out I meant "Any questions relevant to this exercise" and not literally any question they could think of.

When your work environment has an openness policy, it literally always means a certain kind of openness and it's stunning that any adult would think otherwise.

Every single person who goes to bat for the free speech principle thinks they are coming off as principled but like, it's pretty obvious just self-interest, fear that now they can't say what they really think about broads in the workplace. That's why they've gone from defending a hypothetical to pretending the hypothetical happened.

Okay, I don't think people should be fired for the action of publishing a memo about their company either. I'll agree that this is a standard action taken by Google that I'd expect from most large branded companies and that FoldnDark's effort to make this about some larger social problem fails since the memos criticisms were directed specifically at Google.

We could discuss this in principle (and I'd still disagree, but the arguments might have some merit) but we all know this isn't how the world really works, right? We all know that in most jobs you can't send out a political manifesto and expect it to end well if it goes against what the higher ups are saying (and possibly even if they agree), right?

Could he greet his female coworkers with "Morning hot tits"? Let people say what they want, right?

Or if you want to take sexual harassment out of it, could he greet his female coworkers with "Good morning, inferior engineer!"

But you can send out a political memo at Google - as long as you agree with GoodThink. Bonus points if your Think is DoublePlusGood.

Yah, it's interesting. I just try and generalize this subject matter and see where it get me.

Does talking about hiring policy get you fired? I can't write a memo on whether we should be hiring more social science majors cuz they have soft skills? I don't think commenting (even a long memo) on hiring normally gets you fired.

So, I think it is the political nature of his comments that got him fired. Seems bad to me, but I'm still thinking it through.

Also, this is a private company doing the firing, so I don't think we are talking about US 1st A rights.

Is there an EEOC right related to political views?

Wikipedia says that California provides for protection based on "political affiliation."

But I click on the link on footnote 31 (for California employment protection laws), and I don't see political affiliation listed. (Also recognize that political affiliation is not the same as expressing one's political beliefs which is also not the same as expressing ones views on hiring practices.) In fact the link in Wikipedia is broken, but I go here and don't see political affiliation listed.

Your false equivalencies suck.

He could say good morning inferior engineer to either a man or a woman though. Do you then think that person should get time off because words are violence?

Dude, that's open discussion within the company code of conduct. The Google intraweb != 4chan.

This is flat out 100% conspiritardical thinking. He was fired by senior Google management, maybe by the CEO himself. Such folk have direct access to facts involved. They aren't filtering information through the MSM or tweets.

Besides, as us adults keep trying to explain to you children.., the content of his spew isn't relevant. His spew has no place in the workplace. Period. He's always going to get fired for spewing like that on the job, regardless of who his bosses are.

Google isn't a debating society. It's not a matter of if this ex-google fool feels that he was advancing harmful gender stereotypes -or- not, and it certainly not a matter of what some 3rd-hand fool like you or Star-Butt-Coder-X feel like spewing. Here's how it works...

Google senior management serves at the will of the shareholders. They set company policy. For example, don't be going around advancing harmful gender stereotypes. Then they enforce company policy in the workplace. It's these folks... Google senior management, and only Google senior management... who decide what is, and is not, advancing harmful gender stereotypes in the workplace.

Second, arguing that "Biology" somehow licenses you to do what the big bosses just told you not to do has a name... Insubordination by Odious Stupidity. That'll get you fired too.

Yes. Education. I graduated college 15 or so years ago, although I also went to grad school for some of that time. I have around 20 employees, so my views are mostly a reflection of how I try to run my own company, not Google.

I think his case stems from having a conversation about working conditions and questioning certain legalities. He is apparently allowed to question practices even if then end up not being illegal - and he cannot be retaliated for questioning them.

We can't even trust conservative men to be bathroom attendants and it's because of conservative men.

Lol, You don't think he would get disciplined for calling his coworkers inferior every morning? Where the **** do you work?

Yes. This is how it works and why smart people will keep certain opinions to themselves at work instead of plastering them over the office e-mails.

Edit: I'll caveat and say that it's not clear that sending out a political memo is ever appropriate, but even taking it that some are: LDO

I don't blame Google for firing him. They did what they had to do to prevent a revolt. It was the clique of hysterical Flyesque social justice advocates who created the conditions that such a tame memo would cause such an uproar.

Did you read the Scott Alexander piece? This is not just Google. It's not just a few universities. It's spread far and spreading. It's creating a substantial backlash. When will you be convinced that the social justice left is currently lead by Fly not Well Named?

Why, are you planning on linking it again?

Seriously folks, all of this shiz will get you in trouble at work. You might not get fired the first time, but at the very least you will be informally counseled. Except to be written up. Haven't any of you people held down a real job?

Hiring and firing policy is defended fiercely as an exclusive prerogative of management in the US. If you poke your nose into this subject, you will get your nose slapped.

Of course not.

None of that stuff pertains to inside the workplace, on -or- off the clock. What the CA law says is the bosses can't fire you for belonging to a political party of your choice, or for campaigning, outside the workplace, and off the clock.

Would you get fired for your first offense? Where the **** do you work?

(I've heard much, much worse - from senior Execs. Suck it up, buttercup!)

Sure, I agree this is how most large companies work. But they are primarily concerned with their own bottom line, and I don't care about that, so I don't see why that should affect my own evaluations of their actions.