Lol deuces. There's so much ranting, strawmans, false assumptions and maybe even just honest misunderstanding in there.

I should have known not to bother responding to you.

Ok well at least tell me what, hypothetically, would make you dark on preemptive war. The Iraq debacle was a referendum, no? But you still support the doctrine.

I'm sorry if my tone was offensive but your ideas come off, to me, as a bit generic in their passive acceptance, as an american, of policies which most of the world has a problem with and which have come under serious attack domestically. You don't really address any of the main arguments against preemption. You're just kinda like "yeah the idea of killing the bad guys with no risk sounds good to me". It's like total subscription to this commercial idea of instant gratification without sacrifice. How can you not see that as the chimera it is? after what we have been through in Iraq?

I didn't support the Iraq war at the time and I don't now either. I believe you're misusing the word referendum, but assuming you mean it was an example of why all preemptive war is bad - I'd just adjust that to be its an example of when a preemptive war was bad.

I can easily imagine a situation where you know enough to make preemptive war an ok situation. It's the same with person-to-person violence. I don't support initiating violence, but surely there are some cases where you think its ok?


I'm not an American. Nor do I live in the US. So, there's that.


I don't believe that's what I was saying - which is part of the reason I'm not going to keep going on this with you.

Anyone watch Homeland? GOAT spy thriller series by orders of magnitude.

ok well you said this

where you tried to draw on some "I was there, I'm a New Yorker" credit so I assumed you were an American. Also, things like "Don't pull that **** on me" and most of your figures of speech, attitudes and beliefs seem American.

But I believe in Universal Health Care!

Edit: I wasn't implying you made an unreasonable assumption. Was just pointing out I'm not American and don't live in the US.

series sucks, ... Much like "24," it glorifies the fear industrial complex, and condones invasion of privacy and torture.

the lead character's impulse to drown her own infant is symbolic of so much.

after suffering through Season 1, about the only redeeming feature was being able to look at Morena Baccarin

What are you?

Apparently the 'Drone policy' changed a while back to include clear guidelines to avoid civilian targets, but has reverted back with the recent escalation with the IS group in Iraq. Protests, elections, and petitioning representatives about the drone policy worked to a measure and for a while. We definitely have to do the work to make it happen.

That's odd, the thing I like about the show is that I think it questions the very thing you say its glorifying.

I just watched the first episode of the new season last night and right off the bat its throwing out there that we're not really the good guys and that we're murdering a lot of people.

Yeah Jiggs, think you're missing the message.

well then the writers read the press clippings from season 1 and it has changed... because that wasn't really the case from the start.

Also, DiBs... stfu

Jiggs, much like peak oil and the threat of ever increasing oil prices, its a work of fiction

Feuding with you is booooooooring. Yawn.

Peak oil already is here, dip****... and if you had a clue why oil prices are dropping, you'd attempt to rationalize it rather than trolling and disappearing, like you always do. Despite it being explained to you a dozen or so times, you clearly don't understand the dynamic, you never have, and you expose your limitations every time you try your latest ineffectual hit-and-run.

It's still historically high, and will shoot right back up when the shale majors (continue to) go belly up. Mark it down, dude.

Guess we should have expected this price decline after the Euro broke apart a couple of years back.

Do you wanna get into it, or are you just practicing being a dick again?

The media is not focused on this issue and the American public seems to be indifferent. So innocent people continue to be murdered and the numbers of people that hate and want to destroy the U.S.A. continues to grow. Making it really easy for terrorist recruiters.


The sad part is I think Americans are mostly good people and have suffered for their Governments screw ups. But the American public has to step up and stop these drones.

I don't think this is really true. American's are very good at patting themselves on the back about how good they are. But in reality American's are as tribalistic and selfish as any other people. We are one of the richest people's on earth, we eat better food then most people, we consume more of the earth's resource and most people are blind to the cost.

we freak out when something kills a few thousand innocent Americans but are largely indifferent when our retaliation kills a 100K innocents abroad.

See how a large percentage of Americans acted when poor kids tried to get into our country recently to escape a country where they are regularly murdered or forced into criminal gangs.

I'm not in anyway suggesting the US is worse then other people - I think people are people and we happen to be a nation with an edge that keeps us above most people. And we're very compassionate towards many other atrocities so long as our edge isn't threatened.

It took generations to before slavery was ended, and a few more generations before civil rights were advanced. Hell, we ended slavery before giving women the right to vote.

My point is that progress takes time. It is easy to see the immediate impact of problems and forget that.

Yea I can see your point. Canada is much the same.

America is not making progress they are regressing. A government that isnt accountable to its citizens is not a democracy. It doesnt matter which party is elected, they are both controlled by special interest groups and multi national companies.

Are you saying you think the american people are against the drones but can't voice that objection because of some failure of democracy?

or that you think they should be against the drones?

or even that they would be against the drones except that the system has made them apathetic.

I'll dispute this. Maybe (and it's a big maybe) for white men. But most other demographics seem much better today than they were at any time in the past.