Anarchy - Page 569 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Property can't be resolved with the non-aggression principle because property is what delineates an act of aggression with an act of defence.

And there is no universally acceptable way to define property which is what leads to conflict and requires a monopolist land owner. Democracy is what keeps that monopolist in check, we aren't just tenant we are part owners.

01-30-2017 , 07:30 AM

#14203

leavesofliberty

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladesman87

Are you pro or anti roof roads?

What are roof roads? I am missing part of the convo.

01-30-2017 , 07:31 AM

#14204

Bladesman87

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Roof roads are the most important part of anarcho-capitalism.

01-30-2017 , 07:32 AM

#14205

leavesofliberty

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ianlippert

It takes an inter-subjective consensus to figure-out just outcomes. It just so happens the inter-subjective consensus is the Constitution, which is a very unjust document, and fair-minded people with a better understanding of rights would agree. Essentially DC is an overbearing landlord, and we're all paying rent, and democracy keeps this in check, and lol, there's "liberty". There's certainly more liberty in some democracies over another. Maybe it does take Madonna in a V mask.

01-30-2017 , 07:34 AM

#14206

leavesofliberty

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladesman87

Roof roads are the most important part of anarcho-capitalism.

So, what are you trying to accomplish here?

01-30-2017 , 07:36 AM

#14207

Bladesman87

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Proph, the patron saint of anarcho-capitalism, had issues with creating competition for the road system: once a road is built past my house, I can't drive on anyone else's roads. As a solution, he arrived upon roof roads - a kind of spaghetti junction to each individual house so that one would always have a choice of roads to drive upon.

01-30-2017 , 07:39 AM

#14208

leavesofliberty

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Either the magic of entrepreneurship figures this out, or we are back to talking about the philosopher kings, and how there'd be total peace in Plato's dream world, which I personally cannot accept. Entrepreneurs can figure this out, and they do figure this out in the real world. There's a huge market for private roads in Africa.

add: Interesting all that education, and your level inquiry is essentially to construct a canard, and troll. Clearly, open minded well rounded people coming out of the education system.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 01-30-2017 at 07:44 AM.

01-30-2017 , 07:54 AM

#14209

Bladesman87

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We did figure it out. Roof roads.

01-30-2017 , 08:01 AM

#14210

leavesofliberty

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We did figure it out. Gov't roads.

01-30-2017 , 10:31 AM

#14211

kerowo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by leavesofliberty

You shouldn't claim more land that is justly yours,

Ahh, it's Bill and Teds Perfect Society "Be Excellent to Each Other!."

02-03-2017 , 03:44 AM

#14212

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Is this thread all Anarcho-Capitalism and no Anarcho-Syndicalism/Socialism/Communism/Primitivism?

I don't see one mention of Rojava or The Spanish Civil War in here.

02-03-2017 , 03:47 AM

#14213

leavesofliberty

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Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

Is this thread all Anarcho-Capitalism and no Anarcho-Syndicalism/Socialism/Communism/Primitivism?

I don't see one mention of Rojava or The Spanish Civil War in here.

No. There's plenty of mutualists, who are somewhere inbetween. I am somewhere around AC and mutualist territory with my lack of belief in legal justification for territory, and contrasting territory and property, and also pointing out mutual aid is a good solution to a lot of problems. I do wonder what more of the left-anarchists think about roads/infrastructure (NSA keyword). Also lots of kerolols/trolls/blades in this thread, etc. So, no not all ACists.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 02-03-2017 at 03:53 AM. Reason: no offense but obv troll is obv kerolol/blades/trololol

02-03-2017 , 03:52 AM

#14214

leavesofliberty

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ianlippert

Human judgement delineates what is property, and what is not property. The anarchist sentiment is that people are not your property. Democracy doesn't work without human judgement any better than property rights do.

02-03-2017 , 03:55 AM

#14215

leavesofliberty

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 27AllIn

How many of you have read an entire book about Anarcho-Capitalism? Not talking half of an Ayn Rand novel...

I've read For a New Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard, and Defending the Undefendable by Walter Block. I would perhaps add some more lefty stuff to my bookshelf with a recommendation, but I'm in the middle of a lot of newly purchased poker books.

02-03-2017 , 04:15 AM

#14216

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Crocodile Dundee didn't believe in the legal justification for territory. Do you remember that?

I was just reading a little on mutualism. Seems cool. I'm a bit soured by Proudham having wanted to kill all the Jews.

Are you following the development of Rojava/Democratic Federation of Northern Syria?

02-03-2017 , 04:23 AM

#14217

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Quote:

Originally Posted by leavesofliberty

Well, I recently read On Anarchism by Chomsky and just read Homage to Catalonia which goes a bit into Anarchism. I have a few more things to get through, but I want to read something by Murray Bookchin.

Also, regarding Mutualism. I'm listening to Anna Karenina and Levin, one of the main characters, talks about economic systems a lot and it sounds a bit like some of the descriptions of Mutualism.

02-03-2017 , 04:36 AM

#14218

microbet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by leavesofliberty

I do wonder what more of the left-anarchists think about roads/infrastructure (NSA keyword).

The left-anarchists in Spain or Rojava didn't/don't have problems with infrastructure. There is collective ownership/managment/labor for a lot of stuff.

02-03-2017 , 05:02 AM

#14219

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People worried about human rights under Anarchy should look at the Constitution of the only mass society in the Anarchist community.

02-03-2017 , 05:12 AM

#14220

leavesofliberty

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Yes, I read Proudhon's Property is Liberty! Property is Impossible! Property is Theft! treatise, and it was very inspirational. There's probably other stuff I've read a while back, but I've forgotten. Thanks for the recommendations. It'll be a couple of months. Also, you can PM MissleDog (or meself).

add: Lysander Spooner is good.

02-03-2017 , 07:06 AM

#14221

yeSpiff

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02-10-2017 , 11:41 PM

#14222

microbet

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Where the left and the right meet. Rojava, or now the Democratic Federal System of Northern Syria, which I mentioned before has a government and economic system inspired by the writing of Murray Bookchin who is described as libertarian socialist/anarchist/social ecologist/municipalist among other things was recently the subject of a small article by:

The National Review on the right

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-democracy-ypg

Quote:

The Syrian Kurds believe in secular democracy, societal equality, and the rule of law. They want devolved power so each community has control over its own affairs. There is no law in the land that can tell you who to worship, when to worship, how your children should be educated, or how you should lead your life. It’s no wonder that the Assyrian National Council, which represents Syria’s Christian minority, supports the Syrian Kurds and the new Rojava administration. While the rest of Syria slips into anarchy, as the Assad regime barrel-bombs people from the sky and the Free Syrian Army rips itself apart, the entire northern part of the country has children in school, police on the street, and a functioning democracy.

and from last year, The Nation on the left (by Bookchin's daughter)

https://www.thenation.com/article/th...-obliterating/

Quote:

As Öcalan has noted, this model, which he calls “democratic confederalism” and which deliberately eschews a centralized state, is based on the ideas of my late father, Murray Bookchin, a social theorist and historian, who called this philosophy “libertarian municipalism” or “Communalism.” The notion of citizen empowerment at the core of this philosophy has its roots in the Greek city-state of Athens; it can be seen in the Committees of Correspondence preceding the American Revolution, and still lingers today in the form of Vermont town meetings. It represents an extraordinary development in the Middle East, one that deserves widespread support.

02-11-2017 , 12:13 AM

#14223

Shame Trolly !!!1!

Neo-Gorean

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4,839

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

... Rojava, or now the Democratic Federal System of Northern Syria...

I took the liberty of quoting your post over to the Another World is Possible thread. That is already a RWA thread, and it has previously touched on Rojava. This was the ACer self-containment thread. I'd hate to have something important IRL like Rojava be associated with fantasy and gibberish like ACism, roof roads and Proph.

02-11-2017 , 01:48 AM

#14224

microbet

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Thanks. I hadn't looked at that thread. Some interesting stuff/people in there. I like to mention it in this thread too though as ACism isn't really what Anarchy is historically and I don't think most people know that. I didn't really know much about it until recently - not that I know a lot about it now, but more.

Also, the impetus for ACism people feel is some combination of anti-authoritarianism and individualism. Depending on what is driving someone towards ACism, they may find a more social flavor attractive.

02-11-2017 , 02:53 AM

#14225

Huehuecoyotl

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Demanding the Impossible: A History of Anarchism

Is a good book that goes through the history of various anarchist movements and what happened to them. It gives short shrift to anarcho capitalism though.

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