Let's be honest, when a working class family buys a house in a middle class neighbourhood they don't stand out as much if they are white. We all know what poor is a codeword for here.

What makes you so glad to defend child rapists?

Lol at you ignoring my other post btw and just addressing those two.

The point of that Baldwin vid went right over stockguy's head and obviously chez and FoldN ignored it to add content(by whining about how nothing should get called racist), but stockguy got close to it. SOOOO CLOSE.

So yeah, right now you'll saw in the 60s racism was embraced and supported. But that's not what people at the time said!
What do you think Baldwin was respondingto? He was responding to the "don't call it racism, that's a meany mean label personal attack that coarsens the discourse, maybe that church is just all white as a coincidence, don't even talk about white supremacy, you're making it worse" by channeling our next President:

What difference does it make? We can't see into anyone's soul, but we can see the works they have wrought. And yeah, duffee, I get that it boggles your mind and hurts your feelings to see whatever percentage of Americans get called racist... but if all those people aren't racist, how the **** did America turn out this way? That's a pretty incredible run of bad luck for minorities, that all these studiously non-racist good people just HAPPENED to create and perpetuate institutional white supremacy.

Yes it can be code, it is not always code. Property values would fall if a low-income housing development were built in an affluent area even if no black people were around to move in, like Seattle.

I'm glad to defend people of the 18th century if you want to call them all scum for having a different set of morals than we do today.

I don't see any posts of yours I have ignored.

Ask DS.

lol, don't you even know?

I don't know how this is a question. DS said TJ was scum, that's how it started.

I don't have any problem with this in principle. In fact, it's probably one of the best things you can do. That said, not everything you think is racist becomes magically racist because you say so. Often people need convincing, and it's even possible you might be wrong. Maybe a full three quarters of the US aren't as racist as you seem to be suggesting.

But it is an argument that maybe racism isn’t the biggest problem we’re faced with. Is the ‘major’ problem racism, or the fact that Missourians are pulled over at a rate almost 4x the national average?
My impression is that most people think our racial sins of the past have been redressed. I’m in that camp, in that I don’t think blacks are entitled to any additional special political treatment or retributions.

I agree, but that doesn’t mean everyone has to assign the same priority to the problem. Meaning, of course for blacks I expect racial discrimination to be a high priority, but that doesn’t mean whites must rank it as high. My political priorities are the economy and thwarting a police state, stomping out racism just isn’t that high on my list.

"They are doing it nevertheless,” according to you et al. People have heard your argument and your case, and they’ve rejected it. Just as people have heard my case and rejected it. That’s just the political world to me. But it’s not the end of the world, because it’s what we can agree on that matters the most, not what we can’t or don’t.

So, you looked at the DOJ report, and we know you went on to see that other MO police departments had similar statistics, and if you were watching the news, you might have even seen that San Francisco just had a bunch of cops caught swapping racist texts, and you conclude that racial oppression of blacks is completely over?

True this is just the usual usual. It's not a serious matter like the brucez fiasco.


As long as this is what people want for the forum then fine. Some seem quite unhappy with the results of your self-indulgence.

I don't understand why you are asking me this. Any behavior that was despicable enough that it would justify killing to stop it was behavior done only by scum. Not letting a black person into your restaurant doesn't meet this threshold. Denying gays the right to marriage doesn't either. But enslaving people does especially if the enslaver realizes it himself. So does raping children.

Also stop with the Lincoln was inspired by TJ's writing. So what? I'm sure most murderers support strong punishment for murder. And a few might have written eloquently on the topic.

No fiascos have occurred on this forum ever.

Hope that clears things up.

Both. Why exactly do you think Missourians getting pulled over at a rate 4x the national average makes a police department treating its minority citizenry like second class citizens because of their skin color not a major problem.

Great. I think that's really super ignorant given the history of this country (I know you didn't actually mean retributions), but at least that's honest.

That's your choice, but "I don't really care about the problems of black people because Im white" is going to draw some deserved criticism.

No, according to the data in the DOJ report an average Ferguson cop searches 1.6 black motorists per month. My conclusion is that racism isn’t as rampant as some would suggest. Either that or they’re completely incompetent at being racist pigs. 1.6 with a badge and a gun, just won't earn a racist merit badge.

This is the other thing, Duffee, that I didn't really understand about your graphs and why I wanted to look at the data. On their face, the graphs you posted didn't disprove Ferguson was really racist, it showed racism might be even more prevalent.

I get that you were using them to say disbanding the Ferguson PD isn't a panacea, and that's true, but "man, the rest of the departments are really racist too. That's too bad, but we have bigger fish to fry" isn't really a satisfying answer to me.

And that is dramatically higher than elsewhere in the country. Where is your line for when we can call systematically pulling over more black people than white racist? 3 per month? 10?

Come on, DS, you know exactly why I ask the question. Your singling out TJ as scum for owning slaves while giving everyone else of that day a pass for beating and raping children adds the perspective that is missing from your argument. Either he was scum, but so was everyone else of that day, or he did scummy things like everyone else but it was a different time, and we don't generally hold people of centuries past to our moral standards.

Yes, he figured out he was doing something wrong, but apparently he didn't think it was as bad as we do today now that people like him helped change our moral compass. It took awhile for raping 12-year-olds to seem so horrific too, you know. Anyway, his writings show a man who was pretty torn over it, but didn't see manumission as a suitible solution. That Lincoln, someone almost nobody but racists would think to consider scum, understood this and revered TJ anyway strengthens my position*.

Edit:* And the position of most historians on this subject.

Foldn,

As I have made very clear, not everyone raped slaves. Secondly, why are we obligated to name all the slave rapers before we discuss the horrible deeds of one particular slave raper?

If when you called people racist you made clear you also think that of over 2/3rds of Americans it would be a very different story.

You don't mean what most people mean but you appear to mean what most people mean. You may think it's good but it is disingenuous at the very least.

Only 6% of San Francisco is black. Yet 50% of inmates in county jails are black.

We need a time machine to handle all this slave/rape moral outrage from the anals of history.

I'm not just talking about slave rapers, but everyone who had sex with 7-12 year olds in that day. They were rapist, right? How about all the women and children beaten, abusers? Lots of horrible people there too. So where's your outrage?

You're welcome to discuss horrible deeds of anyone from anytime, but when you hold them to our current moral standards, you're distorting things. Just like centuries from now if they consider killing animals murder, I doubt many of them will be dense enough to call you scum for eating a steak, even if you hung out with vegans, read The Jungle, and knew what you were doing was wrong.

I doubt I have ever criticized cannibalism on 2+2 either. There is a big long list of horrible things I have never criticized. I guess I had better get going before I dare criticize a slave raper

Genghis Khan, I condemn your raping ways.