There is nothing to acknowledge as that is evidence of nothing. I can guarantee you that Bovada having 10-12 minute blinds is not the sole reason, or even one of the major reasons, that they are atop the US market at the moment. As I said before, few on this forum would know more about Bovada than myself.. so I am very comfortable making that statement.

I would feel comfortable making a similar statement about Merge as well, but there are more people more knowledgeable about Merge than myself.

What? Your affiliation with Bovada doesn't give you the ability to the read the minds of 3,000 players. This is the most ridiculous post in this thread.

I can think of at least a dozen players on this forum in the past 4 weeks I've been here who say that's THE ONLY REASON they play on Bovada. 10-12 minute structures with the larger tournament selection. There are people in this very thread who've clearly stated that fact.

People hate Bovada because of anonymous player pools (I'm one of them.) Yet, they still flock to the site like flies to ****. It's not because of Software, the Beast, or comfortableness with their current site.

Your claims are totally bogus and have no baring on reality. My claims are verified by other posters in this very thread.

My past with them gives me every reason to believe I know what players wanted and what it was that helped grow the site as the majority of my time in that position was spent talking to players day in and day out to find out what they wanted.

You know you are doing a poor job of making your argument when people that agree with you (like myself) are willing to poke holes in your argument. You are using tiny sample sizes and making claims based on that data. You are using small pieces of information and pretending like that small piece of data is the only reason the sites are ranked the way they are, while ignoring the 1,000 other factors that are in play.

how else can I try to explain that this is in NO WAY evidence of what you suggest. I will give you an example of how/why the conclusion you draw from this is flawed.

you cannot pick 1 variable of countless and conclude that it is solely responsible for the difference in size of the player pools. it is completely ridiculous.

it's like having starbucks/dunkin donuts/ and the coffee bean and saying well starbucks and dunkin offer x variant of coffee and coffee bean does not offer this specific variant of coffee. I therefore conclude this is the only thing responsible for them having a larger market share in the business. all other factors be damned.

Really? So, your past with them allowed you to read player's minds? The majority of players never speak with staff of a site unless it's over deposit/cashout issues. Most of your players never gave you feedback. So, stop pretending that they did.

You're right.

Your "Beast, Software, site comfortableness" is sooooooo much more quantifiable and credible. Give me a break.


Hahahahahahahahahaha. 1,000 other factors, huh? Didn't you only post 3 before? Now it's a 1,000?

I'd love to hear this....as your first 3 justifications were a total joke. I can only imagine how comedic this is going to be. Let's hear these 1,000 other reasons.

Those of us who play full-time like them a lot. I don't care if the tournments are early or late, weekdays or weekends. I look for the best tournament. Times and days are almost irrelevant, but I certainly don't want the deepest tournaments limited to 2 or 3 days a week.

EDIT: Also, a lot of people dont work Monday through Friday. My wife and I have worked a lot of places that are open 24/7 (rescue mission, hospital, radio station, army and others) and we've had to work our share of weekends.

Well, you constitute less than 1% of the internet poker market. And, that's about all you're going to get on WPN.....enjoy.

Good business model...."we're going after the 1%...screw the other 99%."

Stick to poker...you're going to need it.

Move it where you want...

WPN has been blowing my phone up for 2 weeks...not sure if it's because of my vocal disgust here as I refuse to answer. I have no desire to have a private discussion with these people.

I want it done here...out in the open. Where players who share my concerns can see it.

hyperbole- exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally

I'll give you one last question:

If having a superior 10/12 minute structure is seemingly all that is necessary to make a website grow... then why was Bovada, using the same structures they use now.. a distant 3rd in the US market for quite some time after Black Friday?

Because they changed from Bodog to Bovada and nobody knew about their existence at the time, as a result?

I'll flip it....

Why did they move from 3rd to 1st when Merge and WPN were both using 15 minute levels? Huh? Merge had 15 minute levels just like WPN after Black Friday. Merge woke up and realized how horrible 15 min levels are for business when they started seeing all the business go to Bovada...when will WPN?

The fact that Bovada went from 3rd to 1st is more evidence that 10-12 min levels were largely responsible. Were you trying to post evidence to back me up? Because, you just did.

Then do it, really. But understand that it's not an absolute decision either way.

We'll see what the staff at WPN thinks when 15 min levels get crushed.

It was 8 months after Black Friday until the switch... so your answer doesn't explain why people quickly moved to Merge rather than Bodog, a site that had been around much longer and had 10 and 12 minute levels.

Your flipped question implies a couple of things:

1. That Merge was 1 and WPN was 2. This is false.
2. That Merge's fall from the top had to do with their blind levels. This is false. They were far and away the #1 mtt site in the US for 13 months after Black Friday with those 15 minute levels.

There are many reasons for Merge's downfall... the level length wasn't one of them.


Also.. can you just post everything at once. Several times now you've posted, I've gone to reply, only to see that you've added more to the post that I'm responding to. My "evidence" shows that Bovada was 3rd for well over a year despite having 10 and 12 minute levels. This implies that blind levels are not as important as you would like to believe or else players would have immediately switched sites. This further implies that there are other factors at work.

I edited that post a few minutes ago, noting that not everyone works Monday-Friday. I had a lot of jobs where I worked weekends.

It had been around much longer as a sportsbetting site, but it was hardly a significant poker site pre-black friday as you're falsely presenting it. Carbon was bigger in that respect to begin with...way more people knew about Carbon as a poker site.



This is also insignificant, but thanks for mentioning it...



Yea, because nobody knew about Bodog/Bovada. Hell, I just learned about the superiority of Bovada as a MTT site 3 weeks ago. I never went to the site to look for myself because I had no interest in anonymous player pools.

If it wasn't for anonymous player pools I wouldn't be on this thread complaining about WPN.

I'm not saying it's the ONLY factor...as I know changes rakeback/player point policies on Merge sent a lot of players away. However, it was definitely a factor and to deny it is dishonest on your part.

I hate Bovada, but I'll gladly play there over Merge/WPN for the 10-12 min levels and larger tournament selection. It's the same way for most MTT players out there.


Why the hell do you think Merge changed from 15 min levels to 10-12 minute levels, then? Why do you think that their player pool/guaranteed prize pools have increased since then? Huh?

+1

Sigh.. you're wrong on so many parts that I don't know where to begin. You have such a one-track mind that it is absolutely impossible to explain anything to you.

But I will.. with pleasure.. say that 15 minute levels had nearly nothing if anything to do with Merge's downfall. It started with Lock and other skins poaching players and then leaving the network. That dropped the network's players base by a good amount. Then came the changes in rakeback, vip point value, lowering of promotion value, changes in management, changes in states they serve, slowing down of payouts, changes in payout rules, payout fees, and so on and so forth. These things, and more, are the reason Merge fell from first.. not their 15 minute blind levels.

Immediately? Seriously?

Like I said, I didn't even know that Bovada had such a strong MTT selection with 10-12 min blinds until 3 weeks ago.

So, what are you talking about? This fantasy you have that every player would switch over night is unrealistic.

So, why did Merge go to 10-12 minute levels if it's so insignificant, then? And, why has their player pool and guaranteed prize money increased since doing so? Obviously, it is a factor and you don't want to acknowledge it.

Why ,with all the PROBLEMS you just listed, is their player pool twice that of WPN's? Could it have something to do with their policy changes regarding tournament levels? Again, you just listed a bunch of reasons that WPN should be kicking Merge's azz....yet, they're getting crushed by Merge...more evidence to back up my argument. THANKS.

I gave you some of the reasons, but you dismissed them.. because apparently software isn't important and people don't choose familiarity over change.. but it's also because WPN has, until very recently, done little to take advantage of the slips that Merge has made.

Oh, really? And, what is it that they've done?

Added more tournaments with shorter level structures? LULZ

This is the easiest debate I've ever been in...the other person gives me all the evidence to back up my argument. Amazing. I've received more evidence to back my argument for me than a year of research could yield.

Thank you.

The Cage, The Cage Midstakes, Sit N Crush, The Million Dollar guarantee, increasing (although still not enough, imo) their presence in this sub-forum, adding new sites to the Winning Tournament Network, getting ready for bitcoin deposit/withdrawals on ACR and other skins, having an accessible CEO answering question on Twitch, Spin to Get In, purchased the company that does their software so that they can have immediate control over it for improvements.

And, with all THAT...

Merge=1,000 players

WPN=500 players

Hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder why.

3 minutes give or take make a site LOL! Seriously Wtf kind of mentality is that? I have always defended wpn but have played at bovada for the last 2 months. Structure has not 1 thing to do with it. it is the fact they have the biggest garuntees for little money. They offer no rakeback or bonuses but their mtt schedule is what keeps them alive. I play every day on bovada now and make decent bank but they won't do anything to compensate me. It's all about the masses and what they choose. Foxwoods and Mohegan are a half hour from each other but you see some players who won't touch one casino for the other.

The only rational one?

WPN tournaments=4-5 am bedtime for the working man

Bovada/Merge Tournaments= 2-3 am bedtime for the working man.

That 3 minutes knocks off about 2-3 hours in playing time. That means you have to do 30% more work on WPN for less money. Even if WPN had the same prize money....then you would be doing 30% more work for the same prize money.

You don't think players feel screwed by being forced to dedicate 30% more time out of their day to play MTT poker on WPN over Merge/Bovada? You better give me 27% rake back if you're going to make me do more work like that.


Cmon man....you know that doesn't apply to internet poker. They could like the noodle bar better at Foxwoods for all you know.