I'm guessing that the only ones actually making money from the beast are the grinders playing 24/7 and everyone else is losing money from it.

BlackChip Rep,

Care to show us the breakdown of how "most" players make money from the beast? Otherwise I don't think many people are gonna believe your statement.

That's exactly how it works. Somebody has to lose for those guys they checked to gain. And u can bet your ass that WPN isnt putting up the difference.

Isn't that how the poker economy works in general?

I don't think the beast is going anywhere guys, the sites making money off it and that's all that matters. If it stopped producing $$ or a lot more people were unhappy with it, then things would change.

I Quit WPN Until i get new software. As a tournament player this software is not good for me!

Curtlow, huaw1ad, JimAfternoon, COKE_MAN, please post (or PM me) your BCP nickname, and providing you played in January this year (that's the month we have all the data for), I will run them through what we've got and I'll come back to you with what The Beast cost you, and what rewards you received from it in that month.

I don't play on blackchip but I do play on True Poker and my sn there is FishyDonk. Can you also show me how much was raked from me for the BBJ? I'm sure it was quite a bit and I never saw a penny of that back...

No, its not.

They could make money doing all kinds of half assed ridiculous things.

If they could make more money in the long run doing things a different way then its a failure.


The Beast has the feel of a bad business decision that focuses of grabbing a little cash now at the expense of bigger future rewards that could be had if the site did things correctly.

Forrest/Trees FTW

As for the software portrayed by the OP: Yes, please!

Thanks for the offer, but I haven't moved my play here yet. I have an account and I desperately want to get away from Merge with there idiotic moves lately, but traffic, software, and the BBJ/Beast drops are making me hesitant to move my roll.

My point was that in analyzing players that received money when everyone that played those tables was forced to pay the drop skews your results. There is no way that *most* players received more than they put in. Maybe most of the ones you looked at did, but if all you looked at was the guys that made it into the money then your results are skewed. If there are other benefits/rewards that the Beast pays out of which I am unaware, then educate me by all means. Maybe it will sway me to move faster.

hopefully that software picture is real..anybody have any word on it yet?

I wouldn't call it a failure but I would definitely call it a mistake on their part; considering that the beast and BBJ cater to two types of players, grinders for the beast and rec players for BBJ. The mistake is that most of these two groups of players would continue to play on the site even if the Beast and BBJ were removed; so there really just losing out on another whole group of players who refuse to play due to rake from the Beast and BBJ. The issue with that is that who knows how big that group of players is or how big it would be. It's almost certain that most of those players are 2+2 members so I can't imagine it would bring in that big of a player pool to justify changing how they operate.

Also who knows how long WPN will be in existence for, maybe they just don't want to risk changing things up in this type of environment.

I don't play here either, as I explained in the "Lets Talk About Rake" thread I posted.

And as I said in that thread, I would insta-deposit if it wasn't for this, and suspect many others would as well.

The US facing sites are all ****ting the bed right now -- just offer a fair rake and you have the potential for massive growth. There's not many US players left to begin with, and most of us are savvy about these things and will seek out the best value.

I have qualified for a Beast payout for 3 months straight since moving over from merge (not just the tournament ticket but the cash payout)... it takes about 7500 hands to get into the money. I have a very busy schedule and not a lot of time to play, but 7500+ hands is pretty doable if you multi-table (I play 4-6 cash tables at a time along with other stuff so am by no means playing tons of tables, but it doesn't take many hours/month to break off enough hands to get paid on the Beast doing this).

The assertion that most players benefit from the Beast drop is just nonsense imo, everyone that doesn't get into the cash payouts is getting hosed. But tbh that is largely the recreational player, who doesn't know or care, as long as they have a chance to get their quad 8's cracked and bink a BBJ. I would think the average 2+2er who plays 4+ tables can get into the money relatively easily. I don't know if I've made money or lost it in regards to the Beast as I've no idea how much drop I've paid towards it, but I suspect getting $75-$100/month cash + a $55 ticket is more than I paid in. As other posters said, that is coming from the other 1000 or whatever players that fed the pool but didn't receive the spoils.

No, sorry - we only have the stats for BCP.

For the love of god, can you please launch the new software? I can't even tile 4 tables on a 1920x1080 without going crazy. Too hard to see, too hard to click. Just mega-tilting. Not to mention no preferred seating.

Stars and Tilt were easy to play on even when you shrunk the table to its smallest size. WPN is fine at the default size, but loses so much quality and playability when you shrink it down.

The picture that the OP posted? Can you confirm thats what the tables are going to look like? Can you answer that question? The OP didn't post a bogus picture? Thats legit? Can you answer this question for me? How many ways can I word a simple question that there is 0% chance I'll get a legit answer to.

Here's what I think (I'm sure you're really interested) Even if that wasn't a pic of what the site was gonna look like you see all the positive responses. So instead of just saying something like "no, that's not it at all." You just lead us on without really ever confirming nor denying cause you see we're excited. So when the site ends up not looking like the picture you can be like "Well, I never said thats what it would look like." Truth is we don't really even know if you guys are doing anything. Sure as heck doesn't seem like it. Whenever pressed on times and dates for these things you never give an answer. Not even ballpark. What if its another year before you guys introduce these changes? I don't know if these changes are coming in a week or a year. Nobody does. I get a vibe it's not anytime soon though. You know this and it's why we can't get dates from you. Im not talking specific dates. Just somewhat accurate educated predictions. I'd guess you guys are still fairly early in the process and there is so much more left that you have no idea about times. that's why you're not giving us anything. If you were further along I think you could throw out some fairly accurate predictions or at least give us something concerning dates. But you never do.

It is a legit picture posted by ACR 6+ months ago.

As much as I hate to say this, I agree 100%. Even when there are "changes" to the software as you say, we are never exactly told what has been changed. We want to know what exactly and when has been changed. I agree with this above poster that this update might take a year or more but most people, including me, do not have the patience to wait to get the simplest of the features(preferred seating, etc.....) added to a software. I guess that is why we never get an accurate response rather than a completely vague answer ?

I stopped playing on WPN months ago cause I got tired of their annoying outdated software. They have been working on it for two years?? I'm no programmer but seriously that seems like a ridiculously long time to not have it done by now.

The excuses/lack of info on software changes reminds me of Shane talking about Lock.

We are working hard, things should get better soon, etc...

Reminds me of old FTP. In a day and age where nobody trusts poker sites anymore, you'd think you'd want to be very transparent with your customers if you want to grow your company.

If PokerStars could magically make a return to the US right now they'd steal away almost everyone else's business. Now is the time to create something special while the big dog is just waiting to get back in the game. Seems like too many sites are just being lazy and happy they have their brief moment in the sun.

If pokerstars was back, life would be different.

Right? Such a vaccum exists in the US market right now that you would think someone like WPN would recognize that if they started to really eat into the market NOW, they'll have an economic explosion when the government decides to pull it's panties down and let us have some fun again.

It's really just a matter of time at this point.