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Old 08-09-2017, 03:54 AM   #1
OneLevelHigher
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20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

You guys are holding my money hostage until I pay $1000 of rake. Please process my cashout or I will create threads exposing your hidden policy of forcing players to play.

I deposited $9500, played some 25/50NL on America's Cardroom. Decided the games were too tough so I tried to withdraw. First withdrawal for $4000 was perfect, then when I tried to get the rest of the money out ($7600) they canceled my request and told me I had to pay at least $950 of rake (10% of my first deposit) before I could withdraw any money.

There is zero warning of this when you deposit. They are doing it to force people to keep their games running and because players have no recourse when they deposit with BTC. (Chargeback not possible)

This is a straight up scam. I don't want to play on your site! Give me back my money. I can't believe 2+2 allows ads for this ponzi scheme on their forums.
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:00 AM   #2
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WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

I deposited $9500, played some 25/50NL on America's Cardroom. Decided the games were too tough so I tried to withdraw. First withdrawal for $4000 was perfect, then when I tried to get the rest of the money out ($7600) they canceled my request and told me I had to pay at least $950 of rake before I could withdraw any money.


They are doing this to force more action at their tables and because people who deposit with BTC can't chargeback. So players have no recourse and they exploit us for more profit.

This is a straight up scam. I don't want to play, give me back my money. I can't believe 2+2 allows ads for this ponzi scheme on their forums.
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:30 AM   #3
Sirbustalotz
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

I think all sites require you to rake a certain amount now dont they? I was told it was because of the charge that sites incur for bank charges and what not but with bitcoin I dont see why they cant let you cashout since its little expense.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:23 AM   #4
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

U mad bro?
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:02 AM   #5
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

There is a thread about this on a weekly basis. Their policy is 100% standard, if they didn't do this, they would be opening themselves up to being used as a financial middle man instead of a poker site. It costs them money to facilitate deposits and withdrawals, you don't think they should require you to pay some sort of rake first? They don't want to be used for money laundering, you don't think they should make you take first to prevent this?

Last edited by Bongfellow; 08-09-2017 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:09 AM   #6
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

He raises a valid point (if true) that there should have been notice of this policy on the front end.

The "U mad bro" and the "fish still depositing" lines are unfortunate.

Good point about why they require it, though, Bong.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:18 AM   #7
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorkman View Post
He raises a valid point (if true) that there should have been notice of this policy on the front end.

The "U mad bro" and the "fish still depositing" lines are unfortunate.

Good point about why they require it, though, Bong.
Caveat emptor.

It's clearly written in their Terms & Conditions.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:26 AM   #8
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietAmerican View Post
Caveat emptor.

It's clearly written in their Terms & Conditions.
caveat emptor indeed

also did anyone else notice the thinly veiled barge in post 1?
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:50 AM   #9
Max Cut
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

www.americascardroom.eu/play-poker-for-real-money/cashing-out-your-winnings/general-cash-out-information/


gl with the smear-campaign threat tho lol
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:57 AM   #10
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLevelHigher View Post
I deposited $9500, played some 25/50NL on America's Cardroom. Decided the games were too tough so I tried to withdraw. First withdrawal for $4000 was perfect, then when I tried to get the rest of the money out ($7600) they canceled my request and told me I had to pay at least $950 of rake before I could withdraw any money.


They are doing this to force more action at their tables and because people who deposit with BTC can't chargeback. So players have no recourse and they exploit us for more profit.

This is a straight up scam. I don't want to play, give me back my money. I can't believe 2+2 allows ads for this ponzi scheme on their forums.
No, it's not a scam. What they've asked you to do is perfectly normal. Sites have to pay for processing fees you know. If players deposit and withdraw quickly, they lose out quite a bit. Thus, virtually all poker sites have a play-through requirement, even market leader PokerStars has such a policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirbustalotz View Post
I think all sites require you to rake a certain amount now dont they? I was told it was because of the charge that sites incur for bank charges and what not but with bitcoin I dont see why they cant let you cashout since its little expense.
Sites don't handle bitcoin processing in house. They all use 3rd party processors (for legal reasons and because the processors are pros) for this sort of thing. Furthermore, the funds aren't kept in btc at offshore poker sites, they are converted into fiat currency (USD 99% of the time) which costs money. Processing isn't free, even for btc.

--
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:09 AM   #11
onemoetime
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

That is normal for the site. If everyone did what you tried to do then money laundering would be super easy. Think of it from a business stand point.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:54 AM   #12
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

More like a couple levels below if you ask me
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:07 AM   #13
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

what, since when have this been standard? Ive been able to deposit and cash out quickly on most sites/skins
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:03 PM   #14
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

Yeah but you're from Sweden. US facing sites have higher processing costs to deal with.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:52 PM   #15
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

Its not a ponzi op perfectly standard
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:01 PM   #16
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by imfromsweden View Post
what, since when have this been standard? Ive been able to deposit and cash out quickly on most sites/skins
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Yeah but you're from Sweden. US facing sites have higher processing costs to deal with.
I know what you're saying is true, but I couldn't help but laugh out loud (at work) reading what you wrote.
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:25 PM   #17
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

So much ridiculousness in this OP, it's hard to know where to start. I'll start with the fact that we hardly need yet another thread about this, let alone two of them (I've since merged them). And then there's the original title:

Quote:
Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds
Yes, they will. They're even letting you withdraw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLevelHigher View Post
You guys are holding my money hostage until I pay $1000 of rake. Please process my cashout or I will create threads exposing your hidden policy of forcing players to play.
No, you won't...you've got your thread, we don't need more. But it's not much of a threat given that you're making it in the thread you've already started, and many others like it already exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLevelHigher View Post
I deposited $9500, played some 25/50NL on America's Cardroom. Decided the games were too tough so I tried to withdraw. First withdrawal for $4000 was perfect, then when I tried to get the rest of the money out ($7600) they canceled my request and told me I had to pay at least $950 of rake (10% of my first deposit) before I could withdraw any money.
A very common policy; many sites do something similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLevelHigher View Post
There is zero warning of this when you deposit.
This may be a good point; your only one, if it is. This seems to be a common failing - a number of sites that have policies like this aren't very up front about it, and it would be nice to see that improve.

However, I wonder if it isn't something to protect them from those who would abuse the policy. Ideally, they'd obviously like to see more than 10% of the deposit raked, so it's possible they don't want to let people know right when they deposit that as long as they rake 10%, they don't mind being used to launder money. Now, that's pure speculation on my part, and may not be the case. I just wonder when the lack of notice is so common on different sites, if there isn't a reason for it.

But I should note I don't play these days, so I'm not sure what kind of notice WPN does give - others have said it's in the T&C's, and if so, that's a step ahead of what we've seen from some other poker rooms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLevelHigher View Post
They are doing it to force people to keep their games running and because players have no recourse when they deposit with BTC. (Chargeback not possible)
I don't think it's unreasonable to prevent people from depositing, playing very little, and cashing out immediately. They'd lose money on those who do, and they set themselves up to be used for money laundering if they have no restrictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLevelHigher View Post
This is a straight up scam.
No, it isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLevelHigher View Post
I don't want to play on your site! Give me back my money. I can't believe 2+2 allows ads for this ponzi scheme on their forums.
Ponzi isn't just a cool way to say scam. It has a very specific meaning, and nothing you're complaining about here fits that definition.

As for us allowing ads, what is your thinking here? First of all, if you started this thread and are threatening to start more, you must not have known this topic has been covered many times. So how would we know this is the case? Are you expecting that we have 2+2 staff try out every site for a few weeks before we accept advertising? And if not taking advertising for sites that have a rake requirement was a 2+2 policy, we might as well shut the site down now, and then you'd have no place to complain. Hard to find a site that doesn't require this at least some of the time.

And all of this said, who deposits $9,500 on an online poker site without doing some basic research on their cashout policies, and what their games are like?
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:55 PM   #18
chopsy2
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

I still would like to know how much in rb and beast prize op would get if he just raked the 1k in a week. Would he not be getting close to 1k back in rewards and therefore be essentially be playing on the site for free? If he doesn't want to play because he finds the games to tough for him really that is his problem and not the networks so probably the only real soluntion is for him to either play or shutup.
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:08 PM   #19
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

Don't think we should condone a 10% rake req, even if its standard.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:55 PM   #20
OneLevelHigher
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by chopsy2 View Post
I still would like to know how much in rb and beast prize op would get if he just raked the 1k in a week. Would he not be getting close to 1k back in rewards and therefore be essentially be playing on the site for free? If he doesn't want to play because he finds the games to tough for him really that is his problem and not the networks so probably the only real soluntion is for him to either play or shutup.
Nope.

1000 of rake = 200 of deposit bonus freed

Some people on here are so biased it's ridiculous.

Not clearly disclosing that your first deposit can't be withdrawn unless you pay $1000 of rake is incredibly shady. I don't see how anyone can argue with this fact.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:56 PM   #21
OneLevelHigher
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

Quote:
Originally Posted by chopsy2 View Post
I still would like to know how much in rb and beast prize op would get if he just raked the 1k in a week. Would he not be getting close to 1k back in rewards and therefore be essentially be playing on the site for free? If he doesn't want to play because he finds the games to tough for him really that is his problem and not the networks so probably the only real soluntion is for him to either play or shutup.
Oh yeah, cause I should be forced to play in ****ty games as my only option instead of being able to access my funds. Totally fair LOL
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:58 PM   #22
OneLevelHigher
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Re: WARNING: Do Not Deposit on WPN! They Won't Let You Withdraw Funds

They absolutely do not pay 10% fees on deposits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kahntrutahn View Post
No, it's not a scam. What they've asked you to do is perfectly normal. Sites have to pay for processing fees you know. If players deposit and withdraw quickly, they lose out quite a bit. Thus, virtually all poker sites have a play-through requirement, even market leader PokerStars has such a policy.



Sites don't handle bitcoin processing in house. They all use 3rd party processors (for legal reasons and because the processors are pros) for this sort of thing. Furthermore, the funds aren't kept in btc at offshore poker sites, they are converted into fiat currency (USD 99% of the time) which costs money. Processing isn't free, even for btc.

--
Kahn
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:00 PM   #23
OneLevelHigher
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

They are not letting me withdraw my remaining funds (majority of account balance)

I am not laundering money, I played the games and did not like them. $950 of rake is a lot of rake, you have to play quite a bit to reach that amount.

Not sure why you are defending this highly deceptive policy. Please tell me you've ever read the entire terms and conditions of a poker site or any other site for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
So much ridiculousness in this OP, it's hard to know where to start. I'll start with the fact that we hardly need yet another thread about this, let alone two of them (I've since merged them). And then there's the original title:


Yes, they will. They're even letting you withdraw.


No, you won't...you've got your thread, we don't need more. But it's not much of a threat given that you're making it in the thread you've already started, and many others like it already exist.


A very common policy; many sites do something similar.


This may be a good point; your only one, if it is. This seems to be a common failing - a number of sites that have policies like this aren't very up front about it, and it would be nice to see that improve.

However, I wonder if it isn't something to protect them from those who would abuse the policy. Ideally, they'd obviously like to see more than 10% of the deposit raked, so it's possible they don't want to let people know right when they deposit that as long as they rake 10%, they don't mind being used to launder money. Now, that's pure speculation on my part, and may not be the case. I just wonder when the lack of notice is so common on different sites, if there isn't a reason for it.

But I should note I don't play these days, so I'm not sure what kind of notice WPN does give - others have said it's in the T&C's, and if so, that's a step ahead of what we've seen from some other poker rooms.


I don't think it's unreasonable to prevent people from depositing, playing very little, and cashing out immediately. They'd lose money on those who do, and they set themselves up to be used for money laundering if they have no restrictions.


No, it isn't.


Ponzi isn't just a cool way to say scam. It has a very specific meaning, and nothing you're complaining about here fits that definition.

As for us allowing ads, what is your thinking here? First of all, if you started this thread and are threatening to start more, you must not have known this topic has been covered many times. So how would we know this is the case? Are you expecting that we have 2+2 staff try out every site for a few weeks before we accept advertising? And if not taking advertising for sites that have a rake requirement was a 2+2 policy, we might as well shut the site down now, and then you'd have no place to complain. Hard to find a site that doesn't require this at least some of the time.

And all of this said, who deposits $9,500 on an online poker site without doing some basic research on their cashout policies, and what their games are like?
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:01 PM   #24
OneLevelHigher
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Cut View Post
Please try to tell me you've read that before you deposited. 0% of players read the fine print, they just assume that a giant poker site that is advertised on the biggest poker forums on the Internet will allow you to withdraw your money without having to play thousands of hands as a requirement.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:13 PM   #25
OneLevelHigher
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Re: 20th thread on 10% rake accrual to Withdraw (Edit of Dramatic title)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongfellow View Post
There is a thread about this on a weekly basis. Their policy is 100% standard, if they didn't do this, they would be opening themselves up to being used as a financial middle man instead of a poker site. It costs them money to facilitate deposits and withdrawals, you don't think they should require you to pay some sort of rake first? They don't want to be used for money laundering, you don't think they should make you take first to prevent this?
They certainly don't need to rake 1000 dollars before they cover their costs or make sure I deposited in order to play. Who launders 10k of money by playing hundreds of hands of high stakes no limit poker where the buyin is 5k and you can lose the entire amount in a few hands... I can understand their point if someone deposits 50k and plays 50NL for a few hands and tries to withdraw, but in this case I clearly deposited a very small amount for the game I was playing.
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