Seeing mucked cards at SD - Winning Poker Network -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Two Plus Two Forums Archived Forums Internet Poker Winning Poker Network

Seeing mucked cards at SD

...

Page 1 of 3

1 2 3

Page 1 of 3

1 2 3

11-15-2013 , 01:40 PM

HoyaSaxa123

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,301

If you bet the river, and your opponent calls with the losing hand, this site has the regulation that the losing cards aren't shown in the hand history.

Am I correct thinking this is an unusual policy for an online room? Has there been any thought to change this? It definitely levels the playing field between professional and amateur, so I understand the appeal for this by the less advanced players. Yet, I'd still like to see this changed since it's frustrating to see my peers at other sites using this valuable edge to create more profit.

What do others think? What's the thought process behind this?

11-15-2013 , 03:47 PM

McG_STL

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,373

You already said the thought process, it's good for fish, and in turn good for pros. Fish are willing to make terrible calls(calling down with their 9 hi missed draw, just to see what the other guy had) because they can't get berated after.

The same reasoning applies to why multiple entries don't show in MTT lobbies, people berate fish on Merge who enter a tournament 10x because it shows in the lobby, this never happen on WPN because they don't show it. Fish don't like being berated and feeling stupid.

Generally, anything that encourages fish to play more often and play even worse is a good thing.

11-16-2013 , 12:13 AM

peterpjames

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,833

I think it's weird that sometimes when you get all in pre you see their cards and sometimes not?

11-16-2013 , 01:14 AM

SantaCruz

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 4,161

It's bad for everyone because it makes it that much harder for players to spot colluders.

11-16-2013 , 02:03 AM

asianhustler

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 264

There needs to be the ability to see cards at showdown

11-16-2013 , 05:24 AM

tzwien

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,267

It's really easy to chip dump and soft play if nobody can ever see your cards. It seems like it'd be worse for tourney play rather than cash, but both are easier for colluders to do their thing.

11-16-2013 , 07:11 AM

Jacopo

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 141

I play husng on a daily basis on black chip poker.
I think the point raised in this thread is crucial and moreover is one thing that could be fixed easily.
The point, in my opinion, is if winning want to set a high standard level and compete with other international networks players should have the same tools: why on stars, fulltiltpoker, revolution and any other legit option players can see mucked cards at showdown ?

An international standard should be manteined worldwide, right now thinking players are missing out a ton of value and i think its not fair.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck at the tables everybody!

11-16-2013 , 09:51 PM

Next Level

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 644

Meh, I think anything that slows down the data-miners is a good thing. I could go either way though.

11-16-2013 , 10:02 PM

Limo Wreck

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 365

I think if a site like pokerstars did this it would be great for many of the reasons already stated in this thread.

But since we don't have reason to believe that WPN is actively and aggressively seeking out cheaters and banning them, then the only other option is to make it possible for players to police themselves. This is why we need to see mucked cards.

11-17-2013 , 12:25 AM

#10

HurricaneWill

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 193

Quote:

Originally Posted by SantaCruz

It's bad for everyone because it makes it that much harder for players to spot colluders.

+ 1

11-17-2013 , 07:56 AM

#11

Katipo

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 83

I've always hated that policy and I don't think it makes much sense. If it goes to SHOWDOWN, I expect to see my opponent's hand! Mucking it takes half the fun out of it.

On a separate note, it's weird that in cash games it doesn't show your opponent's hand in a preflop all-in until all the cards have been dealt.

11-18-2013 , 10:49 PM

#12

zonkblood

newbie

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 25

unusual and tilting

11-19-2013 , 05:42 AM

#13

HurricaneWill

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 193

It especially sucks when you pay to see the cards. On the river I'm in position. Villein bets big, I hero call. Auto Muck... I can understand if they hadn't bet. but the whole reason behind my hero call was to see the holdings of my opponent.

11-19-2013 , 07:21 AM

#14

Jacopo

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 141

I recommand players to keep posting here their thoughts and support the reasoning of why seeing mucked cards at showdown is so important for the game dynamic.
I'm sure if we keep the discussion going on the network will re-consider his position about this issue and try to accomodate our request.
Thanks

11-19-2013 , 11:02 AM

#15

laxfunds

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 800

esp needs to be changed for HU Cash.

not seeing the cards HU increases super-user paranoia

11-27-2013 , 08:22 AM

#16

zonkblood

newbie

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 25

Has anyone from WPN actually been referred to this? If so, are they considering any changes? I've found them to be very receptive to customers in general.

11-27-2013 , 09:15 AM

#17

39suited

But it was suited

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by zonkblood

Has anyone from WPN actually been referred to this? If so, are they considering any changes? I've found them to be very receptive to customers in general.

There have been several threads about this topic and the answer from WPN was no.

11-27-2013 , 01:47 PM

#18

HurricaneWill

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 193

That doesn't make any sense. :/

11-27-2013 , 09:41 PM

#19

budo

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 185

For tournament play I believe the Tournament Directors Association rules allow for the losing player in a showdown to muck his cards without showing them. I don't see why those same rules shouldn't be applied online as well.

11-27-2013 , 10:58 PM

#20

SantaCruz

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 4,161

Quote:

Originally Posted by budo

In live games players aren't chatting to each other on skype. Online play is especially vulnerable to collusion. Online players need things like databases and the ability to see mucked cards in order to keep the tables and poker sites honest.

12-02-2013 , 01:13 PM

#21

TheVillageGrinder

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacopo

Don't be so naive. The network is going to do what's best for the network. Sure make suggestions but don't expect those suggestions to be implemented (even if they are shared by a majority of players) unless it is advantageous for the network.

12-02-2013 , 03:43 PM

#22

tzwien

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,267

Well catering to the consumers is usually advantageous for the network.

12-03-2013 , 12:16 AM

#23

Pineapples

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzwien

Well catering to the consumers is usually advantageous for the network.

this

12-04-2013 , 11:36 PM

#24

TheVillageGrinder

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapples

this

You'd think. But look at all the dumb decisions made by Merge as of late. And still for the life of me, I can't figure out why all the mtts on Winning run so early during the week. I have to believe that most people playing on winning are grinding a 9to5. I am. And by the time i get home and eat dinner I'm lucky to be able to scrape together 6mtts.

12-05-2013 , 12:28 AM

#25

clutch352

adept

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 929

Quote:

Originally Posted by SantaCruz

This is hitting the nail on the head.

Page 1 of 3

First

1 2 3

Last

...

Page 1 of 3

First

1 2 3

Last