Are you a real person? ^

is pstars asking people to prove they are actually who they say they are and not using any unfair advantages a witch hunt?

I personally would love to prove I am a real person using no unfair advantage(of course my last 6 months of profit would prove that lol)

Cuz that means everyone else has to as well


The Ceo obv aspires to be Pstars well start by assuring players are all playing w/I the rules....maybe they are

but we all know how the D/U or nothing events were treated for awhile, IMO not so good

are they bots or are they not bots riddle me that


why do we the players always have to prove with evidence someone is playing fairly...is it tooo far of a stretch for sites to provide evidence that someone is playing fairly..oh yeah the age old story of sites players privacy lolol...even a cheater gets that right...never understood that

if you break rules you shouldn't get privacy that should be voided

and to address "evidence"

what can I provide as evidence?
serious question

how could one prove a player is or is not a bot?

Post a large sample db of hands against all the bot accounts showing super improbable statistical similarities between the players.

what would be considered a large sample?

IMO, that kinda data amount to show is something that one person could not collect in a reasonable time period

I think it would need to be a group effort to gather that kind of data

And then we who exchange the data could then be considered to be data swapping and breaking rules

So it in a sense leaves this paradox of never being able to have enough data to begin determining if they are in fact "bots"

this is what is so frustrating

I have never felt more in 10 plus years of online poker that this group of players mentioned are in fact using an unfair advatnge

I have also never accussed another player outside this group of using an unfair advantage nor have my closest friends who play poker

EVERY high volume reg on this site concludes to the same

So am I crazy,maybe but I will say in my life everytime I have had this feeling of am I crazy it usually turns out my reality was distorted by others lies and I am in fact not crazy...girls grrrrrr

If someone even has 1k hands on each of these accounts it'd be a start. But in general, when posted publicly due to suspicious accounts the collation of data by regs to build a stronger case hasn't led to some retributive action by sites (for data-sharing or something). If the case is really there, people should be able to build at least some sort of credible case based around hhs. I agree with you that they seem super bot-like, but calls for more rigor in this thread are reasonable.

I'm going to step and and call the bluff card on you cant play on two different skins at the same time. I know for a fact Ive seen players on two different networks at the same time, in which they are using a program to open both skins. Do some research, its called " SANDBOXER"

Funny I was on earlier ( I never play on this site) and double clicked names and found out you can see where they are from. So many Russians. Had no idea there were so many.


Unrelated and I didn't want to start a new thread.. But how the hell do players join tables so fast. People are always sitting out. The second a person sits in, 2-3 people insta join. There's just no way they can be sitting there the entire time just waiting? Idk weird

they should just allow bots so long as the players know they are bots... solves all problems.... seems like the toughest thing is to play and dont know if its a human or a bot..... im sure a lot of good players could exploit bots once they know its a bot.... in all forms of poker....

it doesnt matter if we are able to exploit the bots or not. even if i have 2% ev against a bot, i wouldnt be happy playing it if i know for sure its a bot(ofc im happy because im printing money playing it). but the point is bots are not good for the poker ecosystem.

That would be sort of all right for heads up games, as long as they weren't clogging up the lobby. It would be bad for 6/9-handed tables though, if bots could join these games without penalty.

There have been many reports of bots winning significant money at low-mid stakes 6-max PLO. While I'm sure they aren't particularly hard to beat now, they're good enough to beat some games, and will only get better and better with time.

There was a recent story about a bot finally beating a professional player in the game Go (a very tactical game game like Chess that's more popular in Asia):

https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2016...g-game-go.html

As computing power increases and programming/artificial intelligence techniques improve, bots gradually but continuously grow stronger. For any particular game, humans always begin far stronger and don't even consider the possibility of a bot being able to compete.

The first bots created play very basically, poorly, and unstrategically, only really managing to play without the rules of the game. After some time and work, bots become good enough to trounce beginning players. Then strong amateurs. Then professionals. Finally, the best human player can't come remotely close to the skill level of the best bot.

Chess saw this happen in the 1990s, and now chess programs are on a completely different level than the best human players. As I mentioned above, bots playing the game of Go have been progressing as I've described. They could beat the vast majority of amateur level players 3 years ago, but couldn't touch professionals in a fair game. Now it looks like the best bot is on par with a decent pro, an accomplishment many thought was another decade away.

Poker is weird because there are so many different varieties and ways it can be played. Overall, poker bots are probably at about the same place as Go bots are, but it depends on which type of poker. Heads up limited poker has apparently been nearly solved (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cepheus_(poker_bot)), and I'd be afraid of playing much heads up short-stacked games in the coming years. Normal, deep-stacked 6-max games aren't as far along yet, but it most likely is just a matter of time.

I am currently voting with my feet

After much thought and discussions with top WPN reps, I have concluded it is time for me to find another grind.

If anyone has the know how to translate huge data to dig more into this issue I would be open to offering up around 75k in hands vs these players, regardless of if I play on WPN or not I can't stand seeing these OBV BOT's break the terms and conditions of fair game play.

Good Luck All

If wpn wont do anything us regs need to do something

They have been around for a couple of years, there's nothing you can do. Wanna organise a strike?

I will say was grinding at a friends house yesterday
I was playing at another network but he was on WPN,

Right when that lag started, an invisible lobby was locked in, once able to view it was montsis and oppy playing each other

There game had zero lag when all others had lag

They quit each other spread out into the lobbies, and all the games we watched them play seemed to have zero lag when all others we viewed did

this may seem simple/no big deal but this is now 7 times over the last 1.5 years we have watched at the exact same time lag happens these 2 players playing each other...w/o lag in what appeared to be a blank lobby


stranger is everytime they were not in lobbies before the lag for extended period of time...as if that was when session started for them


about 5 months ago when this happened we joked and said "oh no, wpn firing up the bots for the day again"....was a joke with some reserved inner believe maybe

last night when we saw, we looked at each other and said WTF again,so strange

So he played Oppy crushed him to 20 chips...then oppy came back and won the match...he showed me on his Pt4 3 events in last 10 days where oppy has came back from 20,10,35 chips run good or what (edit..he played him 3 times...my last event vs oppy he came back from 10 chips also about 2 weeks ago...interesting to say the least)

IDK things are just so strange with these players for years now....
There is nothing normal about anything they do,yet they remain as the crushers..always engulfed in strangeness

like I said before Bots or BEST in the world..make your own conclusion
I know I have

Looking at the rate that the main software is developed, including several years simply to change it so losing hands are shown at showdown...

I really don't think WPN has the programming ability to develop any sort of sophisticated poker bot (or the ability to hire someone who does). So unless there's a bot plays very badly but wins anyway over the long term, I don't think the above possibility is very likely.

fair point, to counter(for the sake of argument lol)

Do we all believe that they "can't" implement the show down cards?

I personally do not, if they can unload spins,jackpots, and other promos that directly link to the inner workings of the software it would lead me to believe they just "don't" want to

Actually in the past WPN has stated that it was a choice to be different for X reason(s) IDK

It is always stated it is in works but far down on "the list"

That said does showing mucked cards affect the bottomline? I wager it does not

It is very clear as it was stated to me personally on phone this past week that the bottomline is very important currently from upper management above the reps we deal with.

Now another point to your post..and this is not an attack or even that I totally disagree with your POV....

If we are to make conclusions based off of what WPN does not do to speak to the competency of WPN in general, why would we trust them to maintain a fair game and offer fairplay/bot protection?

They blew it with DON's and the only action they took was to remove them as they admitted they have no long term ability or confidence to police that format.

So actually I do agree they are incompetent and I have zero faith that a "fair game" can be assured to me as a player on this network based on years of examples

Good discussion anyways

One post by a rep ever in regards to this issue mentioned by numerous REGS for years, just simply stating "we do not allow bots nor do we have any bots"

They may believe that to be true, I just don't

Bots or Humans doesn't matter ill crush all

play 30 matches in a row vs any of the above mentioned, if you finish 16-14, I will cover the rake

I do kind of agree with you on this particular point. I doubt a great degree of resources are being directed towards collusion or bot detection - probably a more passive "as someone emails us about a problem" approach rather than a more active approach/trying to create algorithms to detect suspicious play.

Until either become a widespread enough problem that it's directly affecting their bottom line, more active efforts probably fall under the category of "why spend money/effort on something we don't see as a major problem."

lololol owned

Pretty sure abogaic is also a bot. There are some relatively fishy things -- he 2 tables continuously without any regard for game selection and never replies to chat, as well as having some strange tendencies (ex. 1.5x overbetting in random spots that I've never seen before).

However, the damning thing imo is his rematch behavior. He will always rematch if you accept first, but will never accept himself. Further, if you don't accept and let the rematch dialogue time down, he will always decline at exactly 3 seconds. This is absolutely not human behavior, playing tendencies aside. And yes, I've played a handful of games against him recently at different times to verify this.

This is the exact tendencies the bots on this network have.
I have not seen this before tho