In the beta mac client thread the wpn rep was adament that poker traker will be fully adaptable to the mac client even though its haveing problemes now..

At a time when the 2 largest poker sites are trying to make rec players feel more comfertable by elimiminating massive multitabling and huds. AMong other things to ENSURE A MORE FAIR!!! ENVIROMENT INSTEAD OF FORCE FEEDING REC,S TO REG,S..

ACR IS GOING THE OPPOSITE ROUTE. AS IF THER ARE TOO MANY RECS AND NOT ENOUPH REGS...

THE SO CALLED PROS ON THE SITE HAVE THE ABSOLUTE ADVANTAGE WITH RECS HAVING NO CHANCE.. GOOD GOING ACR..

Man you are a broken record.

fwiw mass multi tabling is a disadvantage to regs vs recs, not an advantage. Win rate goes down when you mass table, with the theory being they make up the $$ on volume. But they are not gaining the volume vs. any given recreational player as most only play 1 or 2 tables anyway.

And the use of huds by regs isn't the advantage you think. A lot of mass tablers use very basic stats that give them less info than if they were playing less tables and observing without a hud, and I've also found that your average regs to an extent and bad regs for certain routinely miss use the data to make bad reads anyway.

I tend to find the suggestion that stat tracking software/huds provide an "unfair advantage" over recreational players simply because they chose not to use them to be ridiculous. It's like saying I have an unfair advantage over recreational players live at the casino because I've read a bunch of poker books and studied theory and they've chosen not to. Advantage for sure, but "unfair" is laughable. And, like my comment about hud data above, if I don't understand the theory or books and miss apply the information, my advantage there dwindles and if bad enough, evaporates all together.

I don't really understand what you want. I personally look for players who are mass multi tabling to take advantage of and it has absolutely nothing to do with how skilled I am. Mass multi tablers make a lot of mistakes, not because the are bad players just because of how much they have going on. If a so called rec player can't beat those guys there is nobody they can beat simple as that.

You guys have made some good points however dont act like its not an advantage. Then why are they starting to stop them or at least talking ABOUT stoping it on larger sites. SEAT SCRIPTING TOO!!!!!!!

Its like at a casino, i sit down to play 1/2 and to kill some time and the 3 regs there have laptops on the felt. Wtf?? Dont play stupid or try to nit this semi comparable metaphore....

The appatites of white trash bum hunting (so called) poker pros is insatiable. They just cant get enouph edge whipeing out the fish from the enviroment with help from the fkn site, no less..

Play your own kind. Oh u wont mr.pro or mr. Grinder I guess they let u use seat scripting too..lol

If there are 3 players at a table, each of those players is going to adjust their play to how the other players are playing. So one player might be playing 20% of his hands against me and 40% of his hands against the other player. The VPIP of 30 that is displayed on his HUD doesn't actually represent how he is playing against anyone at the table.

HUDs are just an average of how players are playing against each other and it is the average of the ebb and flow that takes place during a game. They give a general sense of how a player plays but they don't give regs the advantage that a lot of rec players think they do, since regs are good at getting that general sense anyway. For reg players HUDs are mostly good for multitabling where the reg player might not otherwise be able to get that general sense of play.

Ok, why do sites want to ban them??.. How about seat scripting????

It's not an act. Mass tabling does not provide anyone an advantage over recreational players. They are playing more of a robotic/static style when mass tabling (except for the true beasts but they are playing higher stakes and not mingling with recs hardly at all). The action is for the most part simply coming too fast for them to make many adjustments to play exploitatively. When I play live I'm focused on one table and one set of opponents and am able to unleash any meager skills I may have on them to exploit their mistakes. BTW I do not understand your point about 3 guys screwing around on their laptops at the live table, I am curious to know where this was because everywhere I've played if electronics are allowed at the table they are not allowed to be up on the table during a hand. I would bet you just made that up. But regardless, this again would be a disadvantage for them because they're not paying attention to the game flow and opponents, and are missing a ton of information they could have been gathering to use vs. the other players (reg and rec alike). I love it when people at my table are on their tablets or phones fooling around on twitter or what not in between hands and not paying attention to the game.

FTR I do multi-table when grinding online but I play roughly 8-12 tables max, which would probably put the mass tablers to sleep so I don't think I fit in that category. And I don't know anything about seating scripts nor have I ever used one.

Uderstood, 8/12 aint enouph, lol They should only allow u guys 4

,wht are the good pokersites wanting to ban them if its as harmless as u say? As well as seat scripting????

You just don't seem to get it. If I could only play a max of 4 tables that would be worse for a 1 or 2 tabling recreational player who is presumably less skilled than I am. It would be much easier for me to gather observational data and be in tune with the ebb and flow of each table, and exploit the worse player more because of it. Paying closer attention increases the edge of the better player, not the other way around.

Then why are the good sites wanting to get rid of huds and SEAT SCRIPTING..

For the most part, it's not the poker sites that want to get rid of them. It's the players who think that HUDs are so accurate that reg players get a huge advantage, who are pressuring some sites into banning them. Some players mistakenly equate HUDs with bots.

Keep in mind too that some sites don't have HUDs, not because they don't want them, but because HM and PT simply haven't added them to their list of supported sites.

Bovada is a special case where they believe, as part of their Recreational Player Model, that if they can take away nearly all clues about how opponents play, including multi-session HUDs, they can reduce withdrawals from the site. Their model is about Bovada getting a bigger piece of the pie, not about the rec players getting a bigger piece of the pie. Good players, in actuality, always benefit more than rec players when a game is made harder to figure out.

And bovada is doing exceptional traffic wise.everybody is wrong accept guys that grind 12 tables all day..

Of course it would limit withdreawels. Grinders and reg whales wouldnt be force fed sardines ALL day.
You would have to fish for yourself..

I would join bovada over stars but i think bovada is doing well without me, hud, scripts and multitablers..

If u can play better on 4 tables abd no huds..then by all means, PLEASE DO SO...LOL

Hmmmm??

Unlike most of the other US sites Bovada pools its players with a ROW poker site, Bodog. So the Bovada player pool is a combination of the US and Asian markets. I play on Bovada a lot and I can say that as far as cash games and sitngos go the size of the player pool is overrated. It is larger than the other US sites but not by as much as PokerScout would have you believe. I don't know much about the tournaments there, so I'm not talking about those.

A lot of the reported cash game traffic comes from Zone poker. And the sitngo traffic is disappointing. If Zone poker and the Asian market were taken out of the picture, I doubt that the cash game traffic would be any more than that of WPN.

The Recreational Player Model is used as a marketing tool to draw in rec players. Rec players though don't seem to understand that the anonymous tables give sharks action that they could never had gotten otherwise.

Bovada is a good example of why banning HUDs would be a terrible idea. Even without handhistories, per session HUDs can still be used on the site. Bovada is the most difficult site conceivable for a HUD to exist and yet they proliferate. HUDs can never truly be banned since tech savvy players will always be able to use them. Not to mention that there is a reasonable possibility that the anonymous tables at Bovada aren't anonymous to everyone; now that's something that really would give some players an advantage.

I think a rec player would rather play against a pro who is playing more hands exploitively and occasionally making a mistake against them then a pro who is playing like a complete nit and just grinding off of the fact that the recreational players / poor regs have tendencies to not fold enough enough to his bets. The recreational players are in it for the fun hence the name "recreational player" and playing against 5 multitabling nits who might be overfolding there big blind and not bluffing enough on the river isnt fun. To say multitablers are better for recs is absurd.

I avtually semi agree with that!!!!

But then why would bovads, stsrs, psrty ect be looking to thwart these people?????

The biggest leak in a.c.r is that they bend over too much to these types at the expense of recs. Isnt it onviouse becouse the number 1 complaint about them is all regs no recs...

There's a demand for a grinder friendly us site so they're filling in the gap. If they didn't provide so many benefits for the grinder types they might not have enough of a player pool to have consistent games running for the recs.

[QUOTE=Biatch;48280423]There's a demand for a grinder friendly us site so they're filling in the gap. If they didn't provide so many benefits for the grinder types they might not have enough of a player pool to have consistent games running for the recs.[/QUOTE

Finally, honesty...


Absolutly .there filling a need for that demographic in this depressed enviroment and at least a rec can find a game going in that same depressed enviroment..

If bovada or even carbon were to open up to new york. Acr would here a big sucking sound.
New york would also.help alliviate carbons liquidity issue. Full flush is also full of ex patriots(a.c.r.)



At least your honesty is welcomed. Acr caters to the grinders!! so much!! that it lacks recs. Grinders frustrated on carbon dont leave becouse of the lack of recs on acr.(thats very sad on a.c.r part) lol

Very little people leave carbon for acr but if carbon was available in new york? How many would leave acr?? Answer that question to yourselves....

Were not talking stars. Were talking leaving acr for fkn carbon. And they would!!!

They have to find a way to.be more rec friendly..

There are so few recs that the fkn gi60 are strugling,lol..

Not enouph recs to fill a 60min late tourny. Go to bovada and carbon. Nobody wants to play a 3/5 hour late there, nobody!!!

Everyone around here screans like its normal. ALL MIT GRINDERS AND NO RECS. KEEP IT UP ACR,LOL

Wait, the 2 largest sites in the world? When did stars eliminate MMTers?

You know what is great about ACR as opposed to Carbon? Getting my money faster than 16 weeks.

I ment the3/5 hour late and that nobody wants that only the handfull of acr regs that is the majority of traffic on acr

Exacly my point and they still wont leave carbon for acr.. no fkn recs here.. like the other guy posted acr us serving the grinder crowd and everythung they do is for them..no fkn recs here..

So what would you propose WPN do to atract more "rec" players? I am all for having bigger player pools so let's hear some ideas from you. Remember though, having a large "reg" pool is important also as these are the players who start games and keep them going, "recs" don't like to sit and wait for players to show up. And while we are at it can you give us your definitions of what "reg" and "rec" players are?

My question first. Why wont they keave csrbon for acr even with carbons problems?

Well since I consider myself a "rec" player the reason I am not playing on WPN (even though I would like to) is the constant software problems and the failure of WPN to fix these problems. Your turn.

Oh I would like to add the fact that I enjoy playing 6/9 reg speed sngs. If there were more "regs" on WPN to get these games going at a faster rate I might be willing to over look the software problems to play there. Just something to think about.

You're ****ing clueless. If HUD's make the game so easy to beat why don't rec's go out and get one so they can beat the game? After all they could get a free 30 day trial and win enough in that 30 days to buy the HUD because it makes the games so easy. Back to the real world the reason they don't get one is because they suck at poker and would lose either way so instead of admitting they are terrible they place the blame on HUD's.

You know why they can't get the GI60's going? Because the rest of their schedule sucks.

Again you're ****ing clueless if you think anyone is leaving WPN for Merge. The ones that do are losing players and never cashout so it doesn't matter if they get their money or not.

Here's a bit of info that you might enjoy......many many many people have left Merge to play on WPN/Bovada/etc. The majority of the people that stayed are probably losing players so they don't care about getting money off the site.


tl;dr You're clueless

PS....Do you work for WPN? If not you should apply as you'd fit right in with all the morons working there.