The fact that this is the only WPN response to such a thread in a WPN subforum is quite disgraceful imo. The nut low on multiple levels.

Gonna have to agree.

Well yeah, WPN should be embarrassed.

To allow bots to run rampant and then to have your representative deny their existence in the most condescending way possible is absolutely a disgrace.

Huge props to ChicagoJoey for making a video that needed to be made. It will save a ton of people a ton of money.

I encourage anyone who has money on WPN to withdrawal immediately, and anyone who was considering depositing to find another site or wait for RunItOnce Poker to launch.

RIO poker isn't going to be available to U.S. players =/

There are several troubling things with your response here. As for your comments to Carl, just because someone moves out of a high crime area because they are sick of it doesn't mean they give up their right to comment on the crime in the area.

ACR is rife with bots to the point that bot makers literally advertise their products for your site:

http://www.poker-bot.org/main/acr-update/



The only people who seem to take this issue seriously are the people who play on ACR, because aside from them, I see nothing but inaction on your end.


In 2016 after the MadBotter bragged about using your site as a platform, Mr. Nagy said:

Serious words against botting, which is cheating. Your statement in this thread seems to contradict Mr. Nagy's statement, but then again the complete lack of action on the part of ACR against bots seems to indicate that the site doesn't take cheating seriously in the first place.


It's been argued that ACR benefits from bots due to rake, but I would argue at this point the site would make more money if it confiscated the balances in the botter's accounts, since there are so many of them at every single level of the game, it would probably be windfall profits for the site.

There is bot cheating at every single level of cash games, starting at .1 .2 and the only people who seem to take this seriously are the players, which is a shame because not only is it not their job to ensure fair play on your site, but also because they have no power to do anything.

I imagine that this cheating has cost honorable players tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, but they have yet to find a remedy in ACR's actions.


I'd suggest you examine what more reputable sites do when confronted with cheating. For instance the chess website lichess. If an account there is found to be cheating with a chess engine, the players who has been cheated will have their elo points returned to them. Such actions are not only laudable, but also profitable for the site, which is now the fastest growing chess site on the internet.

I sincerely hope that ACR begins to take this issue seriously, because there will come a terminal point in which your player pool will vanish.

A+ post ^

I'd also add that the above bot site lists WPN as "low" security level on their homepage (http://www.poker-bot.org/main/) which their FAQ further explains means (bolding added):

"Most of casinos that we support at the moment, are loyal towards bots, so you don’t need to hide it or worry about your safety there. Regarding rooms with “High” and “Medium” security level[...]" (http://www.poker-bot.org/main/faq/)

I personally played micro PLO on WPN for a few months this fall, raking hundreds of dollars per month, but have moved my play elsewhere due to WPN's lack of site security against bots/collusion. I can't be the only one. So realize that while the bots are making you rake, they're driving away many players. Eventually, you'll be left with a site of bots playing each other, at which point even they'll stop playing since they won't be able to beat the rake against other bots.

Granted, it makes sense that WPN's business mentality seems to be "make as much money as possible while we can, screw the long term health of the games" since as more states regulate online poker and/or the DOJ cracks down on them Stars/Full Tilt style, they know they're eventually going to disappear anyway.

Dismissing a poster's concerns because he no longer plays on your network is ludicrous - we would all love to return if the security issues surrounding bots/collusion were brought up to an acceptable level (I.E. where Stars is today on security... we all know there's some chance of bots/collusion out there on Stars, but trust that their security team is vigilant enough to minimize it drastically).

+1

Ironically, the best players on America's Cardroom are neither American, nor are they even necessarily human.

North American regs pale in comparison to ROW regs in pretty much every game and format, due to their almost unbeatable combination of: being able to put in more volume online in a post-Black Friday environment, using 3rd party software they has become a necessity for them to beat the higher stakes games, and rampant collusion, cheating, and botting that goes unpunished by WPN.

Few US players, playing in softer live games or in the glory days of Bovada/Ignition, can't compete w the ROW regs at decent stakes anymore. The top 0.5% of US online PROS might be able to make 100k in a yr, but it's silly for them to bother trying when they can make much more playing in bigger, softer games. 95% of the US pros I know only play online to keep their game sharp, as the live action is so much more profitable.

If there are some US online-only pros that made over 100k in '17 I'd love to hear from the 3 or 4 of them that exist.

US online poker is almost dead and many US-facing rooms had a chance to fix this. Bovada/Ignition had the best model at one point and WPN had the opportunity to take over when the new Bodog owners punted on poker, but they've completely dropped the ball in their gross negligence in dealing w cheating, collusion, bots, and protecting the North American players from the more advanced ROW post-Black Friday regs.

Banning players from countries outside of North America is the solution - but it's prob too little too late.

Banning all other countries is definitely not the answer and plenty of US regs are still making over $100K between WPN, Bovada, and the other not so great options. The only kind of segregation that makes sense is economical segregation, but even then if you're not going to have any security at all, people will just VPN like they are doing on Bovada now that they take bitcoin.

If you're human, I'm happy to play you no matter if from the USA, turkey, or the moon. Some of the biggest whales on the site right now are non US.

However, if we were in a 100% regulated USA I'm 100% for being US only, but that is an entirely different ecosystem than what we are in now.

For rumwarrior, I sat to the right of him and pulled up another table he was at to view. I timed my move to be identical to the action on the other table causing two decisions to exist simultaneously. The "bot" would make the responding two moves at the same exact same time (my table and the one I was monitoring) even when I put them in a difficult spot with a large bet.

Just came here off the back of Joey's podcast and wanted to add my experience to MS PLO. I played for a few months in late 2017 and played a few K hands with the 3 named players. I happened to have those 3 tagged as they were always playing at intervals on multiple tables. They would happily sit HU on 6 man tables. Chlore and RumWarrior would always be on in the evenings for me (18:00 GMT onwards), whilst whenever I was on my lunchbreak at work, I would 100% have SillyGeek at my tables (11:45GMT > 13:00).

Just to add, I found SillyGeek and RumWarrior to be strange players, it wasn't until coming to this thread I would have seen Chlore, but it makes sense looking at stats. I just thought Chlore was a reg

so what your saying is 5 player of a 6 max game are sharing cards on the table ? like sit at the dinner table and way for someone to sit in ? is there a lot of h.u.d stats on this at micro ? not a lot have h.u.d.s right

the 3 that i posted about aren't ever playing together at the same time so no card sharing

Is it like real time stats or a solver playing them ?

Yeah. The nearly instant (but always reasonable) turn and river decisions regardless of the number of tables is just something only bots can manage.

Chlore, RumWarrior and SillyGeek are easily skilled enough to be solid winners at higher stakes. Yet they're playing millions of hands at 10PLO. I wonder why that is...

Pretty good argument. No one wants to be stuck at micro stakes forever.

10PLO buys lots of salted herring and piroshkis in Russia, so I kinda get why they stay there.

this may sound bad by lets see how long Acr takes to find us and player transfer back is anyone in to see how long it takes ?

rename is russias card room. ****ing chlore and sillygeek are obviously bots and it pisses me off so much they just sit there sucking up money. when i log on chlore has like 6 buyins at every table. thats alot of rubles.

Why would you not want to play someone this predictable? If these are the #'s of PLO bots, I say more bots please. They only 3 bet a/a/x/x. Why would you complain about this? These #'s mirror tight regs I know to be human. I want players with these stats at my tables. I don't see the issue. It takes an unimaginable amount of computing power for a HU holdem bot to be 50%. This bot thing is a fantasy dreamed up by losing players to explain to themselves why it is not their fault the lose. The cost of a PLO full ring bot would be so high, playing micro and winning would be like losing. None of this makes sense.

These players would be exploited at higher stakes. They may be playing optimally for micro stakes considering all the schooling.

their 3bet is unusually low but they still play fine otherwise
they're non human accounts who will never tilt or spew who are winning at 28bb pre rake/8+bb post.. good luck having any sick edge there

that quote basically proves how unaware and ignorant you are of the situation in many stakes

Ignorance at its finest. A lower than optimal 3bet % is a perfectly reasonable strategy at these stakes, as 10PLO players are slightly too loose from all positions and don't fold to 3bets often enough. They're not just 3-betting AAxx by the way; they're 3-betting a tigher but still well-balanced range given the player pool tendencies. It's not like good players can super profitably exploit a slightly tighter 3-bet % in ring games, especially in a high rake environment.

To act like Chlore, RumWarrior, and SillyGeek are anything except extremely tough to play against and extremely bad for the game as a whole is ludicrous. You won't find a single human player that is beating the games for as much as these 3 Russian bots are.

With the rake as high as it is and the game as solved as it is and the short-stacking that ACR allows, bots like these make the games literally unbeatable.

Until Winning_TD responds to the thread I'll keep bumping it, as these 3 bots are still doing their 8 hour shifts.

BAN these 3 accounts. WTF is taking so long?!

As Joey's been saying in his videos, what exactly is the security team doing? Is there even a security team at all?

Chlore, RumWarrior and SillyGeek make every betting decision within precisely 2 seconds, again, regardless of the street or the previous action and while varying their bet sizes to non-standard amounts. All this while playing multiple tables, some of them heads up. The absurd win rates have been posted already.

This beyond ridiculous.

And I was wondering why I was only break even after a week... While I was crushing on stars funny how I spent a few hour studying those profile...