I'm not defending the network, I was answering your question. Because of what I just ****ing said in my previous post that you said was me defending the site: They don't have anonymous tables and they pay out quickly. That makes them the most attractive site for formerly winning players who quit playing full time after Black Friday but still like to play poker. Again, prove it. If these players are getting dealt great hands all the time on the flop, you'll have evidence of it in your database. Show the stats you have on them that show they're winning some obscene amount. It's what everyone's been waiting for you to do. No one's ever said you're making things up, just that you're wrong about your conclusions. Poker, and randomness in general, aren't things humans are instictually good at. Our brains are wired by evolution to look for patterns, even ones that aren't there, to explain why things happen. In your case, your brain has spotted a "low runout" pattern that you've latched onto as evidence that a site isn't dealing cards fairly, for example.

Becoming a better player involves learning to ignore these false patterns so you can focus on actual leaks you have, not just convincing yourself that "Well, I win on 3 other softer sites, so I must have no leaks". You play 5NL, that on its own means your game is full of leaks. Or how about you post the relevant stats so that other people playing the same games as you can be on the lookout for known colluders?

No, see...you guys have already made it crystal clear that my sample size is so small that I don't have any relevant stats. That road's blocked. Can't go back.

As you've read from the other posters in here - A few of them intend on returning to the thread this coming week and posting statistics compiled from large sample sizes. When they come and post those, you can freely participate in the discussion that results from that. However, me posting stats is going to accomplish absolutely nothing and you've already hammered home why several times in this thread.

Ultimately, numbers are going to do the talking. If there's more variance on this site than any other site when taking a large sample size into account: No matter what YOU say at that point, there's a problem here.

Again, you should only encourage this kind of research as you yourself play on this site. Only good can come from this.

Their larger sample sizes are not good for proving anything either IMO since the only allin hands where they will know their opponent's hole cards are the ones they lost. If WPN could provide them with proper hand histories like every other site (except boss who writes hands like WPN) has then they might be useful but as it is the samples are inherently biased.

you can prove collusion with a very small example.

its been told multiple times you need a large database to prove a rigging of the rng.

Well, on this point too, at the end of the day I'm sure EVERYONE can agree that there's never been provided a legitimate reason as to why those cards are not shown. Nor are they showing today.

Once again, that's just a little bit eyebrow raising in and of itself. Whether you agree or not is up to you...but I think it's extremely suspicious. One network in the world of poker decides not to show losing hole cards in situations where it's in line with the actual rules of poker to show them, and yet this very fact inhibits us from conducting a study on the possibility that variance is experienced to a much larger degree on WPN than anywhere else.

You and I both know that if this was the Federal Government we were talking about running this site here and not "WPN", you'd already see the handwriting on the wall.

The superusers on Ultimate Bet were proven with ~600 hands, stop trying to use the "My sample's too small" excuse to avoid posting anything.

You said the boards run out "too low" too often, if you could just spot that while playing you have plenty of hands to prove it.

You said some players get smacked with the deck on the flop then leave, again, if you could spot that just by playing you can easily prove it with your database.

You said there are obvious colluders working together at 5NL, if you could spot that just by playing you can easily prove it with your database. Choosing not to out these colluders is just helping them cheat other payers. So far there's no "research" even being discussed, just cherry picking.
They claim it's because their programmers suck and can't figure out how to do it. Please quote the rule that says losing hands must be shown at showdown.

I'll even link you to Robert's Rules of Poker to help you.

It's been explained to you multiple times that the rake is actually lower on WPN than on most US sites. AND it has rakeback. I promise you more than 1% of the people playing 5nl is profiting.

And we're not going to continue this. I've responded to a few of you enough. We're just going around in circles while you absolutely refuse to acknowledge portions of my posts.

As you can clearly see up on the thread, a number of people intended on coming back this week and posting their own results. I already said I was going to start recording sessions and right away was met with "no, don't do that do it this way".

I think a few recordings of these sessions with people's screen names, along with data collected from several people's large sample sizes, should aid the discussion nicely. If you would like to return to the thread at that point and discuss it, feel free. For you to simply keep banging your head against a wall, repeating the same things over and over, is getting comical at this point.

We've heard your thoughts and opinions on the subject. We know a few of you think everything is up to snuff here. We don't need to see more ramblings from otatap about how the players are tougher here and that = a smaller winrate. It's beyond redundant at this point and pretty silly that he actually thinks he's explaining something complicated.

If you're bored while waiting for further evidence, feel free to also go back and address all my other points which I brought up. Otherwise, if you're not going to do that, I'd appreciate it if you stopped spamming the thread with the same paragraph over and over.

What part of this post addresses the bonus that can't be cleared by micros players or the fact that we shouldn't be paying into The Beast?

It's been explained to you multiple times that the reason nobody responds to your posts (and then you cry about it) is because you're Captain Obvious. I'm sorry if you feel as if you're not being given enough attention but...you're just not going to be given much attention.

If you're going to keep arguing about rake - Save it. It is, by far, the least important point in this entire conversation. Nobody needs to read your thoughts on it for the 12th time in the thread. We got it, buddy.

Again, the conversation and data collection on this subject is good for everyone. It's beyond suspicious in and of itself that anyone wouldn't welcome it with open arms. If everything looks good, then everything looks good and it only serves to prove that WPN is on the up and up. It can cause absolutely no harm. So, go enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Well it seems like it is complicated since your reply every time is basically "hurr de durrrrr but variance derp".

Very, very nice. Now that you're finished: Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Enjoy losing because you're bad at poker but blaming it on low runouts.

Very mature. The conversation didn't exactly go your way so make sure you get in a parting shot.

this whole thread was the sneak preview for another thread that is coming later this week?

It's whatever you want it to be. Let's remember: You're spending your time posting on the forums because Merge refuses to pay you a dime. So, obviously, the joke's not on me if you consider yourself a "winning" player when you can't even get your money off of the site. What did you actually win?

You quote a post where I completely disagree with you and then you call me captain obvious.

Have fun on your next account.

You seem to be mistaken: Users are only banned from 2p2 when they commit a certain number of forum infractions. It doesn't work like "catfan17 isn't treated with his proppa respec and den da us'a getz banned". It doesn't work that way.

There's no conversing with you. You like to complain that people ignore parts of your posts, but you completely ignore posts of others by calling them trolls for not agreeing with whatever point you're trying to make.

It's like talking to a brick wall, but somehow a less intelligent wall.

I'm starting to be literally shocked that you're still going.

Come on - Give us one more. One more post.

Again: What's the problem? What do you not like about this? The discussion is over today and people are going to come back and post data they've collected. That's a good thing for all of us.

There's nothing for you to be opposing or arguing about. You do realize how transparent you are, right?

As others have echoed - I really, really hope nothing's amiss here. I mean, I desperately hope I don't find out that someone at those tables is colluding or that there's some ridiculous statistical deviation at this site that's basically = to me being robbed. I so hope I don't have to deal with that situation next.

What makes you feel entitled to be able to clear a full deposit bonus playing micro stakes? You are paying very little in rake. Is the site supposed to give you some sort of higher clearance rate? You are clearing the bonus, so it's not like you are being robbed of anything. If you want to clear more of the bonus, get better so that you can play higher. If you want to be able to clear all of a bonus, don't deposit more than you can clear.

Side note: I find it HILARIOUS that for months you've been touting how awesome WPN is.. and how it's the best site for US players, it's the place for grinders to play, etc etc etc, and now here we are.

No problem. I have a low tolerance for people who make extraordinary claims and make zero effort to show any evidence of their claims.

Anyway, you "win". This thread is a great place to pad my post count, and nothing more.
This was why I opened the thread in the first place. I thought for sure it was going to be OP going on and on about what a wonderful land of sunshine and roses WPN was, since that was what he had been posting everywhere else in unrelated threads.

The fact that it was a rigtard thread just made it twice as amusing.

That's the most accurate thing you've said yet. The collective body of your posts in this thread is nothing more than you padding your post count and trolling. Everyone sees that except obviously the moderation on 2p2.

The mere fact that some of you find it INCONCEIVABLE that ANYTHING could be foul about ANY poker site is just amazing. No wonder so many of you got ripped off by Merge. I mean, I didn't...but some of you did.

OP, you may want to reread this:

And this:

FFS, stop acting like a twit. The only thing that will keep this thread open is something legitimately credible. Right now this is nothing but a duplicate of the rigged thread in the IP forum, which is what you're always going to get when you start one of these threads with no substantial evidence, and I'm regretting not locking this up from the get-go.

big bwalz has been pretty much your only staunch ally ITT, and he's given you some solid advice that you should listen to.

Edit to add: Just reread the last page - do you EVER let a post go without a reply? You might enjoy yourself more if you let things go once in a while.

My posts have added far, far more meaningful information to this thread than anything you've managed to pound your fists against the keyboard to make.

It just looks bad when a moderator comes in a thread and calls a user a "twit".

The thread can be kept open since it's about my experiences on WPN. I've brought up NUMEROUS points that have absolutely nothing to do with rigging. Interesting how we don't see ONE response to any of those. If you were doing your job, you would absolutely agree that there's no sense in the same people posting the same thing in the thread over and over. I could see if they were discussing the bonus we can't clear or the fact that no micros player should have to pay into The Beast. Why do they REFUSE to comment on any of those points?

I am 100% right on this one. There's no call for them to just keep posting the same thing over and over. They've been given the opportunity to post their thoughts and they've definitely exercised that. At some point we have to move past Otap just trolling. Again, if you were doing your job you would agree that a post like "yeah have fun being BAD at poker!!" is just infantile and should be removed from the thread with at least a warning to the poster who wrote it. That's how you handle me every time I offend the tender sensibilities of someone on here.

edit: Just saw YOUR last post. You would be wise to follow your own advice. You need to learn that not every thread needs Big Bobo to come and control it. Learn how to let something go now and then and I personally promise that you'll enjoy life more than if you continue picking at every little thing I write.